View New Posts
12
  • Thread Tools
  1. #1
    dynamite140
    dynamite140's Avatar SBR PRO
    Join Date: 07-05-08
    Posts: 4,803
    Betpoints: 9435

    Why do people avoid the $10,000 number when making withdraws?

    I'm down about $12000 lifetime in sports betting so it doesn't affect me because i'm loser at this game. But i'm curious about the people who do win at it.

    I always hear people say that if you make a deposit or withdraw, always keep it below for $10,000. Some people mention this is for tax reasons. I know if you do a $10,000 transaction, you have to file a CRT. But some people mention that its only for cash deposits and not check or bank wires etc...

    The majority of people lose in gambling but to those small percent that do win, is that the reason why they don't take withdraws for over $10,000 because the majority of people don't pay taxes on gambling winnings? I even hear some people respond to those threads such as of course they don't pay taxes on gambling and lot of people laugh at it. I know the government loses a lot of money because the majority of people who gamble don't pay taxes as said in the news and in that movie Two For the Money.

    I read that the chance of getting audited is 1 percent or even less. Well what i don't get is why is anyone taking this chance? I mean i know people don't want to give money to the government since there isn't a W2 form or what not but isn't that a big risk since i heard tons of people get fined and go to jail for it? I know if you win very small, you don't even need to file if its not a certain amount. I think that was $5450 i heard. Well i know guys like Fishhead who is a pro and i think he said he makes $100K at least a year, would obviously have to pay taxes on it.

    Are there people who don't have any job besides gambling going to be caught no matter what as oppose to someone who has a job and gambles recreationally and have money deposited into their bank account? I see many people mention that since they have a job and have money coming into their bank account from their job, then checks or money coming from their sportsbetting accounts won't get noticed as someone who has no job besides gambling. Is this true?

    But if you pay taxes on it, doesn't it not matter how much you deposit or withdraw at once and you wouldn't care about a 10k transaction? Assuming you pay taxes on it, someone can just request the whole $15000 instead of $3000 every time right? I think its very risky if someone did this but I assume most people don't pay taxes. Because i see so many people who say they make a withdraw and very few people say they withdraw more than 10K at a time and i would just assume they do this because they don't want the government to know?

  2. #2
    dynamite140
    dynamite140's Avatar SBR PRO
    Join Date: 07-05-08
    Posts: 4,803
    Betpoints: 9435

    Why do people avoid the $10,000 number when making withdraws?

    I'm down about $12000 lifetime in sports betting so it doesn't affect me because i'm loser at this game. But i'm curious about the people who do win at it.

    I always hear people say that if you make a deposit or withdraw, always keep it below for $10,000. Some people mention this is for tax reasons. I know if you do a $10,000 transaction, you have to file a CRT. But some people mention that its only for cash deposits and not check or bank wires etc...

    The majority of people lose in gambling but to those small percent that do win, is that the reason why they don't take withdraws for over $10,000 because the majority of people don't pay taxes on gambling winnings? I even hear some people respond to those threads such as of course they don't pay taxes on gambling and lot of people laugh at it. I know the government loses a lot of money because the majority of people who gamble don't pay taxes as said in the news and in that movie Two For the Money.

    I read that the chance of getting audited is 1 percent or even less. Well what i don't get is why is anyone taking this chance? I mean i know people don't want to give money to the government since there isn't a W2 form or what not but isn't that a big risk since i heard tons of people get fined and go to jail for it? I know if you win very small, you don't even need to file if its not a certain amount. I think that was $5450 i heard. Well i know guys like Fishhead who is a pro and i think he said he makes $100K at least a year, would obviously have to pay taxes on it.

    Are there people who don't have any job besides gambling going to be caught no matter what as oppose to someone who has a job and gambles recreationally and have money deposited into their bank account? I see many people mention that since they have a job and have money coming into their bank account from their job, then checks or money coming from their sportsbetting accounts won't get noticed as someone who has no job besides gambling. Is this true?

    But if you pay taxes on it, doesn't it not matter how much you deposit or withdraw at once and you wouldn't care about a 10k transaction? Assuming you pay taxes on it, someone can just request the whole $15000 instead of $3000 every time right? I think its very risky if someone did this but I assume most people don't pay taxes. Because i see so many people who say they make a withdraw and very few people say they withdraw more than 10K at a time and i would just assume they do this because they don't want the government to know?

  3. #3
    THE PROFIT
    THE PROFIT's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 11-27-09
    Posts: 17,708

    I didnt take time to read your 5 paragraph question, but over $10,000 is a major hassle with the bank, government, etc...

  4. #4
    marcoloco
    marcoloco's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 07-05-10
    Posts: 2,560
    Betpoints: 2362

    over 10k is reported to the irs

  5. #5
    Hareeba!
    Hareeba!'s Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 07-01-06
    Posts: 7,118
    Betpoints: 1899

    many would be trying to avoid taxes but even those who are clean on the tax front might like to fly under the radar too to avoid the hassle of questions, forms or whatever from banks and government agencies

    as to the <1% chance of being audited ... take that with a grain of salt ... 1% per annum. per lifetime or what?

    play the game for 30 years at 1% p.a. and you are running a fair risk eh?

  6. #6
    pavyracer
    pavyracer's Avatar SBR PRO
    Join Date: 04-12-07
    Posts: 51,964
    Betpoints: 24

    Because it is illegal to bring into the US more than $10,000 from overseas.
    175 pts

    3-QUESTION
    SBR TRIVIA WINNER 08/25/2014

    175 pts

    3-QUESTION
    SBR TRIVIA WINNER 08/28/2014


  7. #7
    Hareeba!
    Hareeba!'s Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 07-01-06
    Posts: 7,118
    Betpoints: 1899

    even if one is totally clean with the tax authorities, most prefer to fly under the radar and avoid hassles with forms and questions from banks and government agencies

  8. #8
    Hareeba!
    Hareeba!'s Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 07-01-06
    Posts: 7,118
    Betpoints: 1899

    Quote Originally Posted by pavyracer View Post
    Because it is illegal to bring into the US more than $10,000 from overseas.
    I can't believe that.

    I expect you'd be required to declare CASH you are bringing into or taking out of the country but I don't believe it would be illegal to bring in any amount by cheque or other traceable form.

  9. #9
    EmpireMaker
    EmpireMaker's Avatar SBR PRO
    Join Date: 06-18-09
    Posts: 7,344

    because they don't want you and the other IRS agents to hassle them
    250pts

    SBR POKER TOURNEY4th Place 8/20/2014

    40pts

    SBR POKER TOURNEY12th Place 9/1/2014

    World
    Poker
    Cup 2nd - Tie

    400pts

    SBR POKER TOURNEY2nd Place 8/19/2014

    150pts

    SBR POKER TOURNEY7th Place 8/28/2014

    600pts

    SBR POKER TOURNEY1st Place 8/21/2014


  10. #10
    pavyracer
    pavyracer's Avatar SBR PRO
    Join Date: 04-12-07
    Posts: 51,964
    Betpoints: 24

    Quote Originally Posted by Hareeba! View Post
    I can't believe that.

    I expect you'd be required to declare CASH you are bringing into or taking out of the country but I don't believe it would be illegal to bring in any amount by cheque or other traceable form.
    Try to explain to Customs and US Treasury on the forms you have to declare and file if you are not working overseas and brought more than $10,000 with you. You can't say I went to CR to pick up my gambling winnings and came back.
    175 pts

    3-QUESTION
    SBR TRIVIA WINNER 08/25/2014

    175 pts

    3-QUESTION
    SBR TRIVIA WINNER 08/28/2014


  11. #11
    Justin7
    Justin7's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 07-31-06
    Posts: 8,576
    Betpoints: 3561

    Another thought about bankwires. $10,000 is one of the most common wire amounts. I would never send this exact amount. If something goes wrong, it's easier to track it down if you have a unique amount. $10,012 is much easier to find than having banks sort through all the 10k bankwires.

  12. #12
    Monte
    Monte's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 08-21-10
    Posts: 2,060
    Betpoints: 1529

    Quote Originally Posted by dynamite140 View Post
    I'm down about $12000 lifetime in sports betting so it doesn't affect me because i'm loser at this game.
    ...and i have a wild theory why: you spend too much time on forums, asking stuff that is just too obvious.
    10k is 5 figures, if nothing else that is a mind game. Come on, you knew that answer right?

  13. #13
    Hareeba!
    Hareeba!'s Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 07-01-06
    Posts: 7,118
    Betpoints: 1899

    Quote Originally Posted by pavyracer View Post
    Try to explain to Customs and US Treasury on the forms you have to declare and file if you are not working overseas and brought more than $10,000 with you. You can't say I went to CR to pick up my gambling winnings and came back.
    CA$H is what you need to declare

  14. #14
    pavyracer
    pavyracer's Avatar SBR PRO
    Join Date: 04-12-07
    Posts: 51,964
    Betpoints: 24

    So you are going to CR and pick up a $50,000 check or *********** from a book and come to the US to cash it? Or are you going to tell the book to give you a gold bar worthing $50,000 to carry with you on your luggage?
    175 pts

    3-QUESTION
    SBR TRIVIA WINNER 08/25/2014

    175 pts

    3-QUESTION
    SBR TRIVIA WINNER 08/28/2014


  15. #15
    Hareeba!
    Hareeba!'s Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 07-01-06
    Posts: 7,118
    Betpoints: 1899

    Quote Originally Posted by pavyracer View Post
    So you are going to CR and pick up a $50,000 check or *********** from a book and come to the US to cash it? Or are you going to tell the book to give you a gold bar worthing $50,000 to carry with you on your luggage?
    Why would I need to go to CR or any place else to pick it up rather than get the money sent to me?

    I am merely attempting to clarify the accuracy of your statement that nobody is allowed to take more than $10,000 into the US. I don't believe it. If I want to travel to the US with my family for a lavish two month holiday am I allowed to take only $10,000 to spend in the Land of the Free?

    I suspect that, as in most countries, one is required to declare any significant amounts of CASH they are carrying on departure or arrival.

  16. #16
    msdw1
    msdw1's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 02-12-08
    Posts: 146
    Betpoints: 24

    The $10k rule applies to cash deposits at a bank only. The govt does not investigate every $10k+ bank transaction. They simply don't have the resources. A $10k check may seem large to some but it is a routine transaction for a lot of people.

  17. #17
    sq764
    sq764's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 04-17-07
    Posts: 1,026

    Quote Originally Posted by dynamite140 View Post
    I'm down about $12000 lifetime in sports betting so it doesn't affect me because i'm loser at this game. But i'm curious about the people who do win at it.

    I always hear people say that if you make a deposit or withdraw, always keep it below for $10,000. Some people mention this is for tax reasons. I know if you do a $10,000 transaction, you have to file a CRT. But some people mention that its only for cash deposits and not check or bank wires etc...

    The majority of people lose in gambling but to those small percent that do win, is that the reason why they don't take withdraws for over $10,000 because the majority of people don't pay taxes on gambling winnings? I even hear some people respond to those threads such as of course they don't pay taxes on gambling and lot of people laugh at it. I know the government loses a lot of money because the majority of people who gamble don't pay taxes as said in the news and in that movie Two For the Money.

    I read that the chance of getting audited is 1 percent or even less. Well what i don't get is why is anyone taking this chance? I mean i know people don't want to give money to the government since there isn't a W2 form or what not but isn't that a big risk since i heard tons of people get fined and go to jail for it? I know if you win very small, you don't even need to file if its not a certain amount. I think that was $5450 i heard. Well i know guys like Fishhead who is a pro and i think he said he makes $100K at least a year, would obviously have to pay taxes on it.

    Are there people who don't have any job besides gambling going to be caught no matter what as oppose to someone who has a job and gambles recreationally and have money deposited into their bank account? I see many people mention that since they have a job and have money coming into their bank account from their job, then checks or money coming from their sportsbetting accounts won't get noticed as someone who has no job besides gambling. Is this true?

    But if you pay taxes on it, doesn't it not matter how much you deposit or withdraw at once and you wouldn't care about a 10k transaction? Assuming you pay taxes on it, someone can just request the whole $15000 instead of $3000 every time right? I think its very risky if someone did this but I assume most people don't pay taxes. Because i see so many people who say they make a withdraw and very few people say they withdraw more than 10K at a time and i would just assume they do this because they don't want the government to know?
    are you serious with this?

  18. #18
    Legions36
    Legions36's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 12-17-10
    Posts: 2,560
    Betpoints: 3063

    Well the reason people do it so they dont have to pay the rediculous taxes that the gov. has in place. Which makes sense they want you to give them your hard earned money that most people dont even win in this game, come on i think its just greed. First off its you who have to go through the ups and downs, and you who decide to wager everything on a game maybe then you deal with the pain and aggony of the game might lose your done, and they want your money for taxes i think thats hilarious. Thats why people dont withdraw more than 10k so they don't need to deal with this garbage. But i do have to say hello everyone they are trying to pass laws so they can really get there hands in all of this, review all the laws and stuff, they even think there doing us a favor by making poker legal here hahaha only to get there hands on our money, telling everyone to legalize poker and make us feel better that we have to pay tax on poker. Well what i get from all of this is after everything is said and done poker will be taxes here and im not sure if it will pass on sports but that will be taxed.
    All in all if you pay taxes they wont even look your way.

  19. #19
    pavyracer
    pavyracer's Avatar SBR PRO
    Join Date: 04-12-07
    Posts: 51,964
    Betpoints: 24

    Quote Originally Posted by Hareeba! View Post
    Why would I need to go to CR or any place else to pick it up rather than get the money sent to me?

    I am merely attempting to clarify the accuracy of your statement that nobody is allowed to take more than $10,000 into the US. I don't believe it. If I want to travel to the US with my family for a lavish two month holiday am I allowed to take only $10,000 to spend in the Land of the Free?

    I suspect that, as in most countries, one is required to declare any significant amounts of CASH they are carrying on departure or arrival.
    You need to travel overseas first and find first hand. You can't fly out of the country or come back carrying more than $10,000 cash on you. It's the law.
    175 pts

    3-QUESTION
    SBR TRIVIA WINNER 08/25/2014

    175 pts

    3-QUESTION
    SBR TRIVIA WINNER 08/28/2014


  20. #20
    Hareeba!
    Hareeba!'s Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 07-01-06
    Posts: 7,118
    Betpoints: 1899

    Quote Originally Posted by pavyracer View Post
    You need to travel overseas first and find first hand. You can't fly out of the country or come back carrying more than $10,000 cash on you. It's the law.
    Ah!
    now at last you are conceding that the issue is CASH as I first said

    now, do you have a link to this "law"?
    I know you'd have to declare the cash but is that an absolute limit you are permitted to carry?

    I've just done a bit of Googling and it has confirmed my view that you may carry more than $10K but if you do you need to declare it and be prepared to disclose the source of the money.
    Last edited by Hareeba!; 01-02-11 at 06:48 PM.

  21. #21
    pavyracer
    pavyracer's Avatar SBR PRO
    Join Date: 04-12-07
    Posts: 51,964
    Betpoints: 24

    Lets say you got out of the county with $200,000 which you declared when you come back you have to have $190,000 to declare back else you will be in some big trouble with the IRS and Treasury. The reason you declare it when you leave the country is so that they can compare how much you declare when you come back for money laundering purposes.
    175 pts

    3-QUESTION
    SBR TRIVIA WINNER 08/25/2014

    175 pts

    3-QUESTION
    SBR TRIVIA WINNER 08/28/2014


  22. #22
    Hareeba!
    Hareeba!'s Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 07-01-06
    Posts: 7,118
    Betpoints: 1899

    Quote Originally Posted by pavyracer View Post
    Lets say you got out of the county with $200,000 which you declared when you come back you have to have $190,000 to declare back else you will be in some big trouble with the IRS and Treasury. The reason you declare it when you leave the country is so that they can compare how much you declare when you come back for money laundering purposes.

    so you now appear to have conceded that you can carry >$10K in cash

    you keep changing your scenarios

    this latest one is quite absurd ... so now you are saying you can't take $10k out to spend on your overseas trip? !!!

  23. #23
    durito
    escarabajo negro
    durito's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 07-03-06
    Posts: 13,183

    pavy go away.

    all countries have different laws.

    you cannot enter colombia with more than 10k cash whether you declare it or not. amounts higher than that will be seized if discovered.

  24. #24
    dynamite140
    dynamite140's Avatar SBR PRO
    Join Date: 07-05-08
    Posts: 4,803
    Betpoints: 9435

    how come this topic went off tangent and talking about other countries now?

  25. #25
    pavyracer
    pavyracer's Avatar SBR PRO
    Join Date: 04-12-07
    Posts: 51,964
    Betpoints: 24

    Quote Originally Posted by Hareeba! View Post
    so you now appear to have conceded that you can carry >$10K in cash

    you keep changing your scenarios

    this latest one is quite absurd ... so now you are saying you can't take $10k out to spend on your overseas trip? !!!
    You have to declare anything above $10,000. Once you declare it to customs the form goes straight to IRS and Treasury. Now if you are smart you wouldn't want to give ammo to IRS to audit you especially if the money was not reported as taxable income on your income taxes. Now if you come back from overseas with much more or much less cash than you left and you have already declared above $10,000 you have just opened a can of worms and shot yourself on the foot at the same time.
    175 pts

    3-QUESTION
    SBR TRIVIA WINNER 08/25/2014

    175 pts

    3-QUESTION
    SBR TRIVIA WINNER 08/28/2014


  26. #26
    Hareeba!
    Hareeba!'s Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 07-01-06
    Posts: 7,118
    Betpoints: 1899

    Quote Originally Posted by pavyracer View Post
    You have to declare anything above $10,000. Once you declare it to customs the form goes straight to IRS and Treasury. Now if you are smart you wouldn't want to give ammo to IRS to audit you especially if the money was not reported as taxable income on your income taxes. Now if you come back from overseas with much more or much less cash than you left and you have already declared above $10,000 you have just opened a can of worms and shot yourself on the foot at the same time.

    well I'm glad we finally cleared that up
    so from it being illegal to carry more than $10K in any form we are now agreed that it is simply a matter of declaration in regards to cash only rather than illegal ... how many posts did it take you to finally come around to what I have said from the very start?

  27. #27
    sharpcat
    sharpcat's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 12-19-09
    Posts: 4,516

    Any transaction over $9,999 must be reported the IRS by the banking establishment who processed the transaction.

  28. #28
    Hareeba!
    Hareeba!'s Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 07-01-06
    Posts: 7,118
    Betpoints: 1899

    Quote Originally Posted by sharpcat View Post
    Any transaction over $9,999 must be reported the IRS by the banking establishment who processed the transaction.
    surely that applies only to CASH transactions?

    and is it only banks?

    I would expect as is the case here that it would be any business, including bookmakers.

    and is it the IRS directly or it is another government agency who looks at these and makes information available to tax and law enforcement agencies such as those policing drug and money-laundering?

  29. #29
    Justin7
    Justin7's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 07-31-06
    Posts: 8,576
    Betpoints: 3561

    Quote Originally Posted by sharpcat View Post
    Any transaction over $9,999 must be reported the IRS by the banking establishment who processed the transaction.
    In cash, yes. What about checks or bankwires? Do you have a cite, stating the checks and bankwires in excess of $10k must be reported?

  30. #30
    sharpcat
    sharpcat's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 12-19-09
    Posts: 4,516

    It is my best understanding that any transaction involving cash (cash, check, DC, money wire, etc.) over $9,999 is automatically red flagged. This does not necessarily mean that it will be reviewed but only that your likelihood of a tax audit is greatly increased. Obviously loans or credit transactions would not be included here but if a US resident is moving 5 figures the IRS wants to aware of it because as they see it money should be taxed every time it exchanges hands and they want their piece.

    Most likely other agencies would not pay you any mind unless they were already investigating and looking to build a case against you or if you have been flagged for suspicious activity. It would take a little more than 2 or 3 $10,000 transactions a year to draw any attention to you outside of the IRS.

  31. #31
    Justin7
    Justin7's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 07-31-06
    Posts: 8,576
    Betpoints: 3561

    Quote Originally Posted by sharpcat View Post
    It is my best understanding that any transaction involving cash (cash, check, DC, money wire, etc.) over $9,999 is automatically red flagged.
    I don't care what your "understanding" is. I would like a legal cite. I have never heard of an audit on a check or wire. There is law requiring that cash transactions of more than $10k be reported (but not to the IRS).

    What is the basis of your understanding?

  32. #32
    yisman
    yisman's Avatar SBR PRO
    Join Date: 09-01-08
    Posts: 59,454
    Betpoints: 1652

    Quote Originally Posted by dynamite140 View Post
    how come this topic went off tangent and talking about other countries now?
    you should be thankful, because the original premise was not very good.
    640pts

    SBR POKER TOURNEY1st Place 6/28/2014

    175 pts

    3-QUESTION
    SBR TRIVIA WINNER 08/25/2014

    60pts

    SBR POKER TOURNEY11th Place 8/28/2014

    600pts

    SBR POKER TOURNEY1st Place 8/25/2014

    150pts

    SBR POKER TOURNEY7th Place 8/27/2014

    400pts

    SBR POKER TOURNEY2nd Place 8/21/2014

    175 pts

    3-QUESTION
    SBR TRIVIA WINNER 08/28/2014

    400pts

    SBR POKER TOURNEY2nd Place 8/19/2014

    $30
    Charity
    donation 1/23/2014


  33. #33
    Hareeba!
    Hareeba!'s Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 07-01-06
    Posts: 7,118
    Betpoints: 1899

    Quote Originally Posted by sharpcat View Post
    It is my best understanding that any transaction involving cash (cash, check, DC, money wire, etc.) over $9,999 is automatically red flagged. This does not necessarily mean that it will be reviewed but only that your likelihood of a tax audit is greatly increased. Obviously loans or credit transactions would not be included here but if a US resident is moving 5 figures the IRS wants to aware of it because as they see it money should be taxed every time it exchanges hands and they want their piece.

    Most likely other agencies would not pay you any mind unless they were already investigating and looking to build a case against you or if you have been flagged for suspicious activity. It would take a little more than 2 or 3 $10,000 transactions a year to draw any attention to you outside of the IRS.
    I can't believe it.
    There would be many millions of business transactions >$10K
    Everyone buying a house, car, boat, cruise, wedding etc. would be caught up in this.
    The purpose of reporting surely is to track significant cash transactions which may be involved in illegality or tax evasion. Other forms of payment and deposit can always be traced.

  34. #34
    sharpcat
    sharpcat's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 12-19-09
    Posts: 4,516

    Your the attorney here Justin

    I do not know exactly who is notified when a bank files an SAR on a transaction all I know is that they will do it for anything considered suspicious activity.

    My only point is if you plan on having $20,000 wired to your bank you had better be paying taxes on your income, if you are than there should be no problem. Nothing is illegal about making a large transaction of money if you are paying taxes on it.

    If you need to find a "legal cite" go for it!!! myself I am fully comfortable with my understanding of it at least enough to know that I do not care to draw any unnecessary attention to myself.

  35. #35
    sharpcat
    sharpcat's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 12-19-09
    Posts: 4,516

    Quote Originally Posted by Hareeba! View Post
    I can't believe it.
    There would be many millions of business transactions >$10K
    Everyone buying a house, car, boat, cruise, wedding etc. would be caught up in this.
    The purpose of reporting surely is to track significant cash transactions which may be involved in illegality or tax evasion. Other forms of payment and deposit can always be traced.
    Obviously since buying houses, boats, and cars usually involves a financing company these matters are not going to be considered suspicious 99.9% of the time.

    You guys are really making more of this than it needs to be.

12 Last
Top