Anyone know something about estonian sportsbook COOLBET? https://www.coolbet.com There is no information about age. And second question is about limits?
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08-20-16 08:17 PM #1
coolbet
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08-21-16 03:45 AM #2
The domain is old and has been a plug-in casino setup but appears to have been sold last year to these operators, so is a brand new site.
They have been advertising for employees for a couple of months.
No clue about limits but please report back if you join and let us know.
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08-21-16 04:52 PM #3
Well I am not the right person to check new bookmakers -> http://www.sportsbookreview.com/foru...195-99bet.html
thanks for answer anyway...
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08-21-16 07:26 PM #4
The founder of Nordicbet and a load of his previous staff have broken away to create this sportsbook which they launched just a few weeks before Euro 2016. Nordicbet sold to Betsson in 2012 for €65m so you would hope the founder would ahve had a good chunk of that and kept hold of a good bit of that and therefore their financial reliability should be sound.
Originally Posted by soustek
There is a good write-up on http://calvinayre.com/2016/06/20/pre...-in-the-world/. There is a lot of good information about them on their site and their blog gives some good insights fromm their CEO himself. You certainly wouldn't find Fred Done or Denise Coates writing a blog so to have a bit more of an open approach from the top of the business is good. The early signs are certainly encouraging from this company.
They have a very good looking feature on https://www.coolbet.com/en/betstatistics which says that when you are logged in you can see the amount and percentage of turnover and number of bets on each outcome. Only Pinnacle shares this kind of information with customers and only in a very limited fashion with their Betshare tweets every now and again so this a good feature, again something that clearly distinguishes Coolbet from their competitors.
From my initial look at them, they seem extremely reputable and offers something a bit different than their competitors. Their website name and the look of their brand are spot on. It seems that at this stage at least they are only targeting a very select few European countries so I can't register and play with them so can't comment on their limits, but they make some statements on the Calvin Ayre article and on their site that they are very independent and different in the way they do business and price up events as they do the pricing and everything themselves and don't rely on a third party white label, and they talk about them sometimes being bigger odds than betting exchanges on favourites so there is at least some hope that they will tolerate winners at least a little bit more than their competitors and actually market manage their book rather than market manage their customers.
Although they are a very new book, I would have no hesitation of signing up there if I could so I would suggest you to sign up there and update us on what they are like as a customer.
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08-22-16 01:47 AM #5
That sounds good.
Although one thing I would be wary of if this is all old Nordicbet management is if their philosophy of calling bets suspicious and crying match fixing at the drop of a hat.
I've been suspicious of their motives with their match fixing obsession in the past.
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08-22-16 05:27 AM #6
My account was limited just a few days ago.
Got this email from coolbet:
"I am contacting you regarding you question about limited bets for European League matches.
The limit has been set for you on sports, as you have only placed bets on sure wins.
I've also contacted our Sportsbook department, and they confirmed, that the limit will stand still.
Here's a rule for it: 2.4 Coolbet reserves the right to refuse personal account applications, to refuse the acceptance of bets, or to limit the amount of bets; without obligation of providing reason.
If you have any further questions, feel free to contact us by email or via livechat.
Kind regards,
Jevgeni
Team Coolbet"
Then I asked what they mean by sure wins. I have placed bets when I see odds that are higher than I believe they should be, but don't understand how that is a 'sure win'. Got this reply:
"As my colleague already wrote, your limits have been taken down since you more or less place surewin bets. On matches where our odds severely differ from other bookmakers, we prefer that our loyal clients choose to bet on these attractive matches instead of clients who bet only when surewins occur, leaving us no other choice than to change the odds quickly, and only offering “normal” odds for our loyal clients. Hence your limits being lowered.
Kind regards,
Viktor
Team Coolbet"
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08-22-16 05:55 AM #7
Surewins are also known as surebets, arbs and a number of other phrases. It basically means that at the odds you bet at, you could have bet the opposite outcome elsewhere and guaranteed a profit, so they obviously thought that's what you were doing. But it really shouldn't be in their thinking whatsoever what you have or haven't done elsewhere with your bet, if they list a price on their site then they should be listing that price because they are happy to lay that price regardless of what prices their competitors are offering, it really is as simple as that. Originally Posted by tommir99
Obviously this is only one case but it doesn't give good indications for their traders. The CEO guy boasts on Calvin Ayre etc that his guys price up the games independently and they take opinions especially on favourites and acknowledges that their odds are sometimes higher on betting exchanges. Then their traders don't like customers betting at those odds, only their "loyal clients", whatever the hell that means. In the modern day bookmaking industry, clients are only recognised as loyal if they are betting on anything and everything at crap odds and if they bet at anything with any regularity near to the top of the market they mark them as smart so I don't see using their reasoning how even any of their "loyal" customers are going to be able to bet at these odds with any sort of regularity without getting marked as smart and then consequentially banned if this case is anything to go by. With the information on the Calvin Ayre article and on their website it indicated that there was some faint hope that they would manage their odds rather than their customers but if this case is symptomatic of their practices, it seems like they may be just as bad as the rest. Bookmakers that operate these sorts of practices most probably have an unwritten rule something along the lines of that they are only happy with you betting the good odds if you bet 10 other bets at crap odds at the same time, sort of a buy 10 get 1 free deal.
Bookmakers always like to make themselves out to be like other industries with the way they operate especially with restrictions, saying that it is a common business practice but that really isn't true at all. There is practically no other consumer facing industry except from the gambling industry that restricts unprofitable customers, even though every industry has the right to do exactly that. This kind of case is no different from you going into Tesco and only buying all the products on their loss leader offers and after 4 consecutive weeks of doing that over and over the manager pulls you to the side and says that as you've only been getting our loss leader offers and not been buying anything at full price, you're losing us money so we're therefore banning you from the store. That example and the practice of bookmakers banning unprofitable customers really are no different. The difference is that it wouldn't happen in a million years in the industry Tesco are in or in practically any other consumer facing industry, and the gambling industry is certainly no special case, so it certainly shouldn't happen in the gambling industry either.Last edited by luctens; 08-22-16 at 06:35 AM.
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08-22-16 06:17 AM #8
Sounds very Nordicbet like.
If they refuse to mediate any complaints and say they will only deal with the regulator then it's definitely the same people.
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08-22-16 06:35 PM #9
I just think it's strange that I can now only place a 5 or 10 euro bet on any match. It doesn't seem to make any difference whether it is one of those 'attractive matches' or one with normal odds. They said they were concerned about me placing only sure win bets, but they don't allow me to place any bets now.
I don't think they want me as a customer. I'm not sure if it makes any difference but I had withdrawn around 800 euros more than I had deposited at the time my account was limited.
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08-22-16 06:40 PM #10
I doubt it's the money won. Originally Posted by tommir99
As luctens said, it sounds like you hit a number of bets that were at arbable odds. They scan for arbs against them just like arbitrage players scan for them.
If you are not an arbitrage player then I guess they don't like you just picking off their best offers and think you are too likely to win consistently playing that way.
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08-23-16 01:09 AM #11
A withdrawal can sometimes affect the account but the overriding factor nearly always really is if the bookmaker thinks you are betting at value prices. Originally Posted by tommir99
The vast majority of bookmakers these days aren't sophisticated or smart enough to pick and choose which bets to accept, they just say this customer looks like he has a brain, let's get rid of them once and for all. So that means if you can't £1000 on at a perceived value price or a £1 win 20 team accumulator, it's all the same, they just ban all bets.
There is no nuanced approach with these bookmakers anymore. It is literally you can bet £5000 one day and from nowhere the next day you can only bet £5, there's no middle ground or selective thinking by them. You can either get whatever you want on any selection, or you can get nothing on at any selection, so that's why you would be limited on all selections, whether perceived value prices or not. Their 5 or 10 euro limits are their way of telling you to go away without completely closing your sports account.
I think the reason they do this and not limit your sports account to absolutely nothing is that if there is ever an investigation into banning unprofitable customers/closed accounts/restrictions by any regulators or anybody in the future and they ask the bookmakers how many accounts they've closed, they will say we don't close any accounts, when in fact the amount they limit you to has the same effect in reality has closing your account, so I think they're limiting you to such paltry amounts rather than completely closing your sports betting account just to cover their backs.
It still doesn't change what I said earlier which is that if a bookmaker lists a price on their site, then that should mean they are confident about that price and are happy to lay that price to their stated limit to all customers, it really is that simple.
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08-26-16 06:42 AM #12
Coolbet's CEO has addressed arbers in the latest edition of his blog: https://www.coolbet.com/en/blog/how-...-company-part3.
He says: "We don’t throw out arbitrage players, but if they only bet on suchevents they will get reduced limits. We understand very well, thatsome will exploit bookmakers odds differences to make money and wesee it as a natural part of the gaming business."
According to the poster on this thread, these "reduced limits" are €5-€10. Fair play to the CEO for trying to explain how he deals with arbers etc, but if he says he doesn't throw out arbers, but just gives them reduced limits, then those reduced limits should still be to a playable level.
If he's talking about throwing out arbitrage players out or giving them €5-€10 limits as being two completely different things, then that's obviously complete rubbish as restricting an account to €5-€10 has the same effect as closing the account.
This CEO needs to make up his mind. He should either close the account of perceived arbers, or if he says he will accept arbers but to a lower limit, then at least he should make that limit to a playable level as giving them €5-€10 limits just makes them the same as the other bookies that they are trying to differentiate themselves from.
Of course this issue doesn't just affect arbers, it affects all above average punters that want to get the best price, as often just a punter who shops around for the best price is often labelled an arber and therefore limited.
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08-26-16 07:24 AM #13
It would be unusual for a sharp bettor to get mixed up with an arber really.
You won't hit the exact right odds at the right time often enough by accident.
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08-26-16 07:47 AM #14
I don't agree. Whether you are a sharp bettor/value bettor/arber or whatever, to make money long term you have to find value, so if a soft bookmaker offers an arb, generally that price is also considered value as part of a value betting strategy so arbers and value bettors will be all over the same bets. Originally Posted by Optional
In reality, a sharp bettor or value bettor is only really an arber that doesn't lay the bets off and lets the bets run, that's pretty much the only difference.
A value bettor is somebody with a bigger appetite for risk that is prepared to risk losing for a possible higher profit margin as opposed to an arber who is more risk averse and would rather take a lower but guaranteed profit margin.
So value or smart bettors aren't really any different from arbers in that they will generally be betting on the same sort of selections at the same sort of odds as arbers, with the only difference being the arber lays the bet off but the value or smart bettor lets the bet run.
So I think it is very easy for a bookmaker to mistake a sharp bettor for being an arber, I know scores of people that are above average bettors and have been labelled over and over again as arbers and I also think for a lot of bookmakers it is easy for them to label you as an arber when they don't actually really know at all if you are or not but they don't want to admit that it is just that you are smarter than their traders which is why they are restricting you.
I see no bookmaker out there that specifically says they will take value bettors but not arbers, it is either that they will take all value bettors and arbers, or they won't take any of them at all, as from the bookmakers' viewpoint, it doesn't matter if the customer is value betting and not laying the bet off or arbing and laying the bet off, they are still of the same band of potential profit/loss to the bookmaker as they are betting on the same sorts of things so the bookmaker would not ever say that they take sharp bettors but don't take arbers, as they're all one and the same from the bookmakers' point of view of the chance they have of making money out of that sort of customer.
It is just that it is a lot easier for the bookmakers and a lot less damaging to their ego to say you're an arber, rather than tell the truth and say that you are smarter than their traders, as whether you are a value bettor or arber, you are betting on the same sort of thing and getting value and are basically better than their own traders but the bookmakers don't want to admit that so they just label customers as arbers.
In any case, whether it is a smart or value bettor or an arber, if Coolbet says that accept all of these customers at least to a lower degree, then they should be accepting them all with much higher limits than €5-€10.Last edited by luctens; 08-26-16 at 07:52 AM.
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08-26-16 08:05 AM #15
They scan for available arbs against them and honestly after seeing the admin reports and speaking to plenty of books about complaints on the subject, an arbers tracks are really obvious. For one, arbs are not always available against best odds. They often come up a few ticks off best and don't stay available for extended periods. They only hit the available ones between a few books over and again across a wide range of sports.
And speaking to players with complaints, most are open and honest about what they do when it comes to arbing and I can't recall anyone that has said it's just unlucky and I am a sharp bettor when confronted with evidence in the 2 years Ive been doing this.
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08-26-16 08:52 AM #16
Well if they scan for available arbs against them, they should be quicker to change their odds to avoid having arbs if they don't want to have arbs on their site. The current situation means that if a punter is either arbing or just happens to pick a price that is an arb elsewhere, they are punished by the bookmaker, whereas the punishment should be for the traders who are too slow to change their prices. It's almost as if the bookmakers are saying they are forced to put up arbs or whatever, the fact is that the bookmakers are in total control and can put up whatever prices they want, and if they don't want to put up prices that result in arbs elsewhere, don't put those prices up on their site, it's as simple as that. Originally Posted by Optional
Not that I think a bookmaker should automatically change their prices to avoid arbs being created, as if a bookmaker has an independent opinion over an outcome that is different from the market opinion, then they shouldn't care what other bookmakers have priced it up as. These bookmakers seem to have forgotten that they are allowed to have an opinion and they don't have to be sheep following everybody else. Like the CEO guy in the Coolbet blog said that if he thinks a team should be 1.80 to win a football game but other bookies have it as 1.65, he said that he can't possibly put the odds at 1.80 as that would create an arb, so he would put that team at 1.72 just so an arb wouldn't be created. That's an absolutely ludicrous thing to say. He's saying that he has a strong opinion, but just because that is not the opinion of the market as a whole and because his opinion would create an arb, he won't put down the price he wants to. He should stand by his price of 1.80 and if arbers or sharp bettors come in and bet it he should welcome that action, as if he is right about the price being 1.80 then it is the other bookies that will lose out by having priced it wrong. Also if he puts the team to 1.72, that means he will put the draw and the other team as bigger prices than he actually thinks they should be, therefore possibly creating value on them odds instead. If a bookmaker has an opinion of the odds and thinks they are right, they shouldn't change the odds they put out just because the sheep on the market think differently, it's as simple as that.
All I can say with the profiling of customers is that with the amount of punters I know that have got limited for just being an above average bettor, if you shop around for the best odds (and why wouldn't you?), that shopping around inevitably means that the best odds that you get are close to if not result in possible arbs and therefore whether you are arbing or not, bookmakers' either think that you are an arber for taking good prices, or are just using that reason as an excuse for banning players that they think have any kind of a brain. The effect of an above average punter looking for value or an arber on a bookie is very similar anyway, in that they are both only looking to bet at the bookie when there is value so the bookies should have no difference in opinion of whether to accept value bettors or arbers, they should be of the opinion to accept all of them, or none of them, it is non-sensical if any bookie says that they will accept one or the other but not both as both of these types of customers are doing the same thing from the bookmakers' point of view in that they are only going to bet with that bookmaker if they see some value in their prices.
And it still comes down to the very simple premise, the bookmakers' set the odds, and if they aren't happy with the odds a customer has been taking, why did they offer those odds in the first place? If they have an underlying problem with their odds compilers, they should resolve the problem at source by getting better odds compilers and sorting out the problem, rather than punishing their customers for taking odds that they actively chose to put on their site.
It really is an absolutely ludicrous situation. Every bookmaker should play to one extremely simple premise that whether they create arbs or whatever, who cares, if you put odds on your site then you should be happy to lay those odds to everybody, it really is as simple as that.Last edited by luctens; 08-26-16 at 09:14 AM.
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09-25-16 12:17 AM #17
In the latest edition of Coolbet's blog (https://www.coolbet.com/en/blog/sports-betting-tips), they are telling you how to improve your betting to try and get to the standard of a professional gambler?!
They've openly said previously that they will shut down any players of this nature and that they are only after the mugs, so what's the point of them giving tips on how to become a professional gambler?!
They might as well put a note at the bottom: Good luck if you heed any of our advice in this blog post, because if you do, we're going to close your account!
Absolutely ludicrous.Last edited by luctens; 09-25-16 at 01:05 AM.
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10-16-16 04:37 PM #18
Another blog post from Coolbet on https://www.coolbet.com/en/blog/sports-betting-mistakes telling you how the professionals bet and the mistakes not to make in order to bet like a pro.
They actually bring up some good points of things to learn in that blog post, but I really don't know what they are trying to get at, as it goes completely against what Coolbet are about, as they've already said that they don't want professional gamblers and that they only want fun punters, so the advice they're giving in order to bet like a pro is very puzzling, as if you take the advice they are giving when betting at Coolbet, they will shut your account down for being too smart.
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09-17-17 01:26 AM #19
I think term "surebet or surewin" is funny
Lots of pros are making valuebets which is more profitable. And as i can see mr Svendsen encourage to make valuebets....lol not idiotic surebets
Making valuebets, surebets or whatever you call it. Its probably best price in the market. Why i am not fortbidden to search best price?Especially when best price exceeds juice and forms some theoretical surebet?
Luctens has right. Traders from bookies should be in level to prevent it
Still i have to make credit for coolbet for indroducing "juice" and challenging other bookies for lower juice. Coolbet has some 100% payouts some higher leagues
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