[aCiDkOr]

Hi All,

I have been a long time lurker on the forums, but an incident that occurred a week or two ago has made me very frustrated and depressed and have made me create an account to ask for advice. I have made countless of deposits using Instadebit/Idebit with Pinnacle Sports over a couple of years, and have never had an issue. Due to some delays in funds being transferred into my chequing account etc, one of my deposits ended up being a NSF and bounced back. As soon as I noticed this, I contacted Pinnacle and Idebit of the NSF and asked for the quickest way to resolve this situation. I made several deposits after that NSF that were all successful. Due to this one mistake, they closed my account, voided my winnings (over $3k), delays in responses from both Idebit and Pinnacle made sending a simple e-transfer into a week long process. I have resolved the issue as quickly as possible, and once I notified Pinnacle it was resolved they bring on a new requirement and say they require a letter from my bank stating that the charge-back was not initiated by me. I am planning on contacting my bank, but I honestly don't know if they will provide such a letter. Would an email response from the representative I talk suffice? How are they able to void all winnings when I have made successful deposits after and not allow a chance to resolve the NSF before voiding all winnings and subsequent bets from one silly mistake? Do they not allow even one time good faith exception? Are they not able to pull up my track record? I have never had an issue with deposits or with Pinnacle Sports until this one event and very frustrated with their generic email responses. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance

[Optional]

I think you are going to have to at least try to get the bank letter to start with. If you can't get that then of course forward emails or anything else you can give them. If you are giving us the full correct info I am confident you can get this resolved.

If that doesn't work you are welcome to fill in an SBR complaint form and we can try to liaise for you.

[OTL]

A similar thing happened to me a few years ago at Pinnacle. The wallet/bank effed up and cancelled the EFT after Pinnacle had credited my account and I had placed a large wager using some of the funds (which won). Needless to say, Pinnacle cancelled the wager and confiscated the winnings, and blocked me from using EFT.

After some back and forth with Pinnacle, and being a long-time client, they allowed me to use EFT again; but I wasn't able to get credited for that winning bet. Needless to say, never again will I use one of those stupid wallets.

I would say you are out of luck collecting your winnings placed with any of the NSF funds. You should be able to recover any winnings that were placed with cleared funds though.

[mp448831]

My instadebit is currently blocked due to password attempts and it will take about a week or two to fix. I have two pending transactions with pinnacle that haven't gone through yet from my bank. Will they be bounced or put on hold until they clear? I don't want to end up with having my winnings effed over. Someone please let me know



"All winnings derived from a deposit later reported as non-sufficient funds (NSF) or that cannot be collected for any other reason by us will be void. For accounts with minus balances, any pending plays, whether from the NSF deposit or not, will be cancelled. If the NSF deposit is subsequently cleared, the client is eligible to receive payment for his original deposit only. This policy applies to any remaining balance in the account, whether directly or indirectly derived from the NSF deposit."

[mp448831]

Hey OTL, can you help me out as I'm having a similar issue. A deposit of $500 echeque came back returned as a NSF charge by mistake. However, my pinnacle account went back to $0. I deposited through another method now, so will those winnings be confiscated through the new method? and will I have to send Pinnacle Sports the original $500, or should I just leave it?

[Optional]

Hey OTL, can you help me out as I'm having a similar issue. A deposit of $500 echeque came back returned as a NSF charge by mistake. However, my pinnacle account went back to $0. I deposited through another method now, so will those winnings be confiscated through the new method? and will I have to send Pinnacle Sports the original $500, or should I just leave it?

Once it is returned you are out of luck Mp448831

"All winnings derived from a deposit later reported as non-sufficient funds (NSF) or that can not be collected for any other reason by Pinnacle Sports will be void."

[xKMACKx]

Learned my lesson from stories on here to not gamble before the deposit is cleared out of my bank account. I have always used Instadebit with no issues, but now I wait a few days for it to clear before placing a bet just in case something like this happened.

[evo34]

Learned my lesson from stories on here to not gamble before the deposit is cleared out of my bank account. I have always used Instadebit with no issues, but now I wait a few days for it to clear before placing a bet just in case something like this happened.

[Bill Dozer]

Its brutal for the player who means well. But there were lots of shot takers...more than innocent people that intended to pay. Back in the days of "echeck" it was bad. We may have heard from players who lost over a half mill in the past 15 yrs.

Careless E Check deposits are becoming costly for players. 12.06.2004
SBR has received an alarming amount of emails from players who have made mistakes depositing with electronic checking. Once these deposits are initiated, the sportsbooks will conveniently credit the betting account for immediate wagering. These E-checks take up to one full week to clear, much like a normal check. The books only accept small individual transactions to minimize the risk of players stopping payment after early losses. However, the player often makes quite a few wagers before the funds have actually arrived at the sportsbook. Disaster strikes when the sportsbook does not receive the deposit as planned and the player has won a significant sum. This can happen due to a variety of reasons. Some banks have been known to hold these transactions for security reasons, while other deposits are botched because the player has mistakenly made a deposit with insufficient funds. The sportsbook must acknowledge the possibility that the player may have never intended to pay. For this reason, the book will likely be unwilling to honor any winnings where the player did not actually risk his funds. SBR agrees with this policy. Although innocent mistakes may lead to loss of winnings, it is the player’s responsibility to make sure the deposit reaches the sportsbook. All players must realize that winnings, and winnings from those winnings, are not valid until the initial wager itself is paid for. First time E Check depositors are urged not to place a wager until the sportsbook verifies that the initial deposit has been received. In recent months, multiple players have reported voided winnings totaling over $100,000.

[Grivas_Digeni]

For future reference...What are some of the other payment methods that could cause similar issues?

Its brutal for the player who means well. But there were lots of shot takers...more than innocent people that intended to pay. Back in the days of "echeck" it was bad. We may have heard from players who lost over a half mill in the past 15 yrs.

[Bill Dozer]

Pretty much anything that involves an ACH or a debit from a checking account balance...anything that isnt debited from a balance in real time.

If you pay by plastic, or an ewallet balance its there and moved in real time. If its not there, the transaction is declined. If you use an e-wallet as an intermediary to process a deposit directly to the merchant, that has to clear. Think about how paypal does a transaction to a peer... you have to wait for the funds to clear before your peer gets the money from your checking account. But a Neteller InstaCash or a InstaDebit, they front you the money like a check at the supermarket.

[RangeFinder]

Why would the sports book credit any account without verifying funds have been received? Tell the customer no wagers can be placed until the sports book has received funds.

I had to wait 10 days for Bitcoin to fund my account before I could even send it to the sports book. Shouldn't they operate the same way?

Just saying.

[OTL]

Hey OTL, can you help me out as I'm having a similar issue. A deposit of $500 echeque came back returned as a NSF charge by mistake. However, my pinnacle account went back to $0. I deposited through another method now, so will those winnings be confiscated through the new method? and will I have to send Pinnacle Sports the original $500, or should I just leave it?

You should be safe to wager now, as long as the funds from your new deposit have cleared your bank account 100%. If you want to know without any doubt, contact Pinnacle and ask them prior to wagering.

You do not owe Pinnacle any money at this point, as they have already zeroed out your account of the NSF funds.

I would not recommend ANYONE to use Instadebit to deposit to a sportsbook account, EVER, because I had to find out the hard way that just because they have debited the funds from your bank account doesn't mean they have or will transfer them to your sportsbook!

[blowjoe2020]

Why would the sports book credit any account without verifying funds have been received? Tell the customer no wagers can be placed until the sports book has received funds.

I had to wait 10 days for Bitcoin to fund my account before I could even send it to the sports book. Shouldn't they operate the same way?

Just saying.

It goes back to that other thread about this Inst-debit place. I posted about this 20 times on that thread.
If a S-book is putting the money in a client's account before they actually get it, then it is their fault and should be done at their risk! And they shouldn't steal back any winnings from money that they allowed to be gambled before they knew if it was a "good deposit" or not. Because all they had to do was NOT put it in the account until they knew or confirmed that it was a good deposit! This excuse of "they do it as a courtesy to the client" is Bull-sheit! If it is a "courtesy" then assume the risk and don't steal it back! Otherwise simply DON'T put it in the account until verified!

I've told several S-books to NEVER put money into my account and let me gamble it if there is a chance or a way that they could steal it back later!

So yes, definitely, you should either wait & make sure these deposits are "good" on both ends, or tell the book to never put money into your account that they "might" steal back later!

[Bill Dozer]

It goes back to that other thread about this Inst-debit place. I posted about this 20 times on that thread.
If a S-book is putting the money in a client's account before they actually get it, then it is their fault and should be done at their risk! And they shouldn't steal back any winnings from money that they allowed to be gambled before they knew if it was a "good deposit" or not. Because all they had to do was NOT put it in the account until they knew or confirmed that it was a good deposit! This excuse of "they do it as a courtesy to the client" is Bull-sheit! If it is a "courtesy" then assume the risk and don't steal it back! Otherwise simply DON'T put it in the account until verified!

I've told several S-books to NEVER put money into my account and let me gamble it if there is a chance or a way that they could steal it back later!

So yes, definitely, you should either wait & make sure these deposits are "good" on both ends, or tell the book to never put money into your account that they "might" steal back later!

I believe these processes get done in batches. So, a sportsbook wouldnt have 1000 different transaction into their merchant account. That is what instadebit deals with.

Its pretty simple... if you are credited for a bank transaction its not in real time. Your checking account is not an eWallet. Thats why checking accounts developed debit cards 20 years ago. A check doesnt clear in real time. If it did, the sportsbooks wouldn't need the Instadebits and you would pay for your groceries in real time.

[blowjoe2020]

I believe these processes get done in batches. So, a sportsbook wouldnt have 1000 different transaction into their merchant account. That is what instadebit deals with.

Its pretty simple... if you are credited for a bank transaction its not in real time. Your checking account is not an eWallet. Thats why checking accounts developed debit cards 20 years ago. A check doesnt clear in real time. If it did, the sportsbooks wouldn't need the Instadebits and you would pay for your groceries in real time.

I'm unclear as what your post about groceries even means or is implying, but I'm not trying to be rude.

I'll just say it again, if a S-book takes it upon themselves to put money in a client's account, AND lets them

gamble it, BEFORE they know whether the deposit is "good" or not, then they shouldn't be able to steal back

the winnings out of the account a few days later. End of story... Right?