[StackinGreen]

My suspicion is that if the dominoes fall and NJ is able to get by with having full option sports betting (and thus other desiring states), the overall betting options or vig might still create an underground market for locals, also because of credit (which is good and bad for both bettors and locals, obviously) and tracking of cash.

What do you guys think?

The wild thing is that with the recent rash of Supreme Court decisions, by far the most unconstitutional law going is that only certain states can have sports wagering. It defies law and logic. Others may equal its unconstitutionality, but none surpass.

[Optional]

Give people a competitive legal option and I think most will jump to it.

[byronbb]

The irony is legalized betting = horrible odds. Mugs in the UK pay 8% vig on 1x2 soccer at their local betting shops.

[Optional]

The irony is legalized betting = horrible odds. Mugs in the UK pay 8% vig on 1x2 soccer at their local betting shops.

Regulation and running a book completely 'fairly' from the consumer point of view costs money. I think most bettors would think it's worth a couple of points to ensure you can be paid any amount you want when you want it and get a regulator who will do something if you have an issue (well sometimes). Average people don't want to break the law if they can avoid it too.

[sweep]

credit accounts w/ locals/agents will grow imo if sports gambling becomes legal in more states.

[sheepgotwool]

Need betting exchanges. That is where all the fun and the action is. People from the states need to realize this !! Exchanges are a hundred times better than books ! Better odds, more action, more live action, and more money at the end of the day.

[dirtdog52658]

Need betting exchanges. That is where all the fun and the action is. People from the states need to realize this !! Exchanges are a hundred times better than books ! Better odds, more action, more live action, and more money at the end of the day.

Exchanges are great for somethings, and somethings the books are better, where its at is having a good mix of both

[jjgold]

men tons of locals in Vegas

Do I need to say more??

Serious players need credit accounts

[sheepgotwool]

Rather bet against people or make own odds than bet against the crooked odds of bookmakers. Live betting via an exchange is an extreme advantage to the astute punter. Books almost good for nothing these days except padding their wallets and copying pinnacle lines and adding tremendous juice onto them.

[StackinGreen]

tradesports was awesome and even their horse racing was WAY better than at a track, because track odds are so crazy/stupid/inflated

in general, I agree with sheep but not sure if and when that'll pop

---
byron,

It is ironic and stands to reason both for what you mentioned as well as my original post

[sheepgotwool]

StackingGreen,

Yes, got incredible odds on the ponies thru exchanges at some places. Doesn't even make sense going to a track or betting at ANY BOOK when it comes to the ponies. Love betting on horses not to win at tremendous odds and vice versa.

[RedDevil1974]

The irony is legalized betting = horrible odds. Mugs in the UK pay 8% vig on 1x2 soccer at their local betting shops.

Just out of interest, how do you think these shops pay for their rent and staff? And make profit?

[byronbb]

Just out of interest, how do you think these shops pay for their rent and staff? And make profit?

This fact did not elude me. I am aware of overhead. I meant it's ironic illegal bookies forced to go offshore can offer better odds than a legal book onshore.

[dirtdog52658]

This fact did not elude me. I am aware of overhead. I meant it's ironic illegal bookies forced to go offshore can offer better odds than a legal book onshore.

Simple answer: Taxes

[RedDevil1974]

This fact did not elude me. I am aware of overhead. I meant it's ironic illegal bookies forced to go offshore can offer better odds than a legal book onshore.

but its not though, they pay no tax, no rent overheads etc. its just sensible.

[StackinGreen]

Horse racing shows you that when governments get involved, it's never enough. The takeout is anywhere from 15-20% on straight bets (WPS) and around 25% for exotics. Think about how criminally insane and out of wack that is. And they don't realize that it kills their handle.

I don't trust that States would be ok with giving a good product. They want high take, even higher than existing --- AND THEN tax you at income when you win, but most states or the fed makes it hard or doesn't allow you to write off losses!

That makes me think underground will remain ...

[jjgold]

Horse racing shows you that when governments get involved, it's never enough. The takeout is anywhere from 15-20% on straight bets (WPS) and around 25% for exotics. Think about how criminally insane and out of wack that is. And they don't realize that it kills their handle.

I don't trust that States would be ok with giving a good product. They want high take, even higher than existing --- AND THEN tax you at income when you win, but most states or the fed makes it hard or doesn't allow you to write off losses!

That makes me think underground will remain ...

vegas makes little money off sportsbetting

thread ender

[T4TRUTH]

The take out is not government, it is to pay all the satellite services, to off track betting facilities.
it is the winner who pays the taxes, go cash a pick 6 ticket for 100k and you will see you get around 80k after the pick fives are added back in , so 25% to the government off the winnings.
hit a trifecta for 599 and above, its a sign up go to the irs window again or 601 not sure which exactly.
So who will want legal betting where any bet / every bet is recorded and if you win what? pay tax on it.. so what will the line be flat flat even money both sides with no room for the shop to make any money because the taxes will be paid by the winner.
the book will pay income tax for the year and give you w2 for all your winnings,
if it is a small win yet taxable and reported, so you do not get taxes deducted immediately, but will need to have the money come april 15th.
just like vegas slots, play all day if you want, with small payouts hit for 1250 or more and the hand pay comes along with the w2 forms. not deducted from the hand pay at that time but you better have it come april 15th.
so NO legal betting will be a mess and who will want to be paying taxes and have every penny they gamble recorded???
age old gambling is a hush hush wink of an eye business, hence credit locals, quick text /phone call and you are down 2k on the patriots, win you get paid, lose you pay, no tracking or auditing or taxes involved.
Is it wrong no, US gov just claim it is wrong, how could the rest of the world allow it and tax the books on income and allow the public tax free.
Rest of the world works just fine in a tax free betting environment, US gov too greedy to even begin to try and figure out for it to work correctly.
Just like card rooms all over california for example, how can they be legal? members clubs.. if you are a member you can win money from other members. Nothing wrong there, so what is the law no illegal house, no illegal book , a legal place to go and bet and get raped on poor odds and taxable winnings. bad bad formula

[StackinGreen]

Yes I agree with it mostly, but yes yes yes it is bad takeout due to the arrangement with OTB (who sets up the OTB, Truth? The State) ... so I'm still accurate. Otherwise how did Pimlico do the industry low takeout 12% on its P5 this year.

The taxable part of gambling, yes, is the nail in the coffin for any real player.

One good thing though, seriously, would be that if the State does in fact get into the business, it is more competition and locals might even get better for various reasons.

[StackinGreen]

vegas makes little money off sportsbetting

thread ender

That's a relative statement. If it were too little, they wouldn't do it. Simple logic, JJ

[jjgold]

That's a relative statement. If it were too little, they wouldn't do it. Simple logic, JJ

Cantor gaming basically bankrupt in Vegas

Locals keep sportsbetting business alive not tourists

[StackinGreen]

Interesting JJ, how do you know?

Will that impact the newly renovated (as of 2 years ago) Venetian sportsbook?

[jjgold]

Stacker..Cantor trying to sell and nobody wants it

CANTOR BOOKS ALL IN RESORT HOTELS AND TOURISTS DONT BET MUCH , RENTS TOO HIGH ALSO IN THOSE HOTELS

WILLIAM HILL, STATIONS, COASTS ALL DO WELL BECAUSE OF HEAVY LOCAL ACTION AND SPREAD OUT IN POPULATED AREAS

[StackinGreen]

I hear you ... makes sense.

Why heavy at the other spots, though, better service?

[StackinGreen]

JJ, you think locals still do well? What % of their clientele are consistent losers. 90?