[StayGolden]

I bet Graham Delaet wednesday night, not knowing he had already withdrew from the tourney.

DSI graded it a loss, not no action.

They told me all wagers have action regardless if a player shows up for the tournament or not.

So, in addition to that bogus rule, they are leaving up players to bet on who have already withdrawn.

Coming from the same book that grades freeplays that push a loss, I shouldnt expect less.


Sad that the biggest and best book have these ridiculous rules to ripoff players

[Hareeba!]

"biggest and best book" ?

LOL.

They've never been and never will be either biggest or best.

[relaaxx]

a fairly big book that has been around a while and will pay you. that's all they got. they will pay you.

[Optional]

I bet Graham Delaet wednesday night, not knowing he had already withdrew from the tourney.

DSI graded it a loss, not no action.

They told me all wagers have action regardless if a player shows up for the tournament or not.

So, in addition to that bogus rule, they are leaving up players to bet on who have already withdrawn.

Coming from the same book that grades freeplays that push a loss, I shouldnt expect less.


Sad that the biggest and best book have these ridiculous rules to ripoff players

I think you will find every single book that offers Golf Futures uses those same terms. All players are action.

[Hareeba!]

I haven't looked at Bookmaker's rules but I believe the general rule is (or should be):
Did the player start the tournament?
If not, the wager should be voided.
If he started and withdrew it is a loser.
But if you're betting in the run and the player had already withdrawn when you placed the bet it should be voided.

Betfair:
Golf

• 15.1General
  
  
  • If a price for a tie is not available, dead heat rules will apply.
  • Tournament bets will only be settled if the minimum number of holes to provide an official result are completed. In general, this number is 36 holes for European Tour Golf and 54 holes for US Tour golf.
  • Where there is a presentation ceremony, markets will be settled on the official result of the relevant governing body at the time of the ceremony, regardless of any subsequent disqualification or amendment to the result.
  • If there is no presentation ceremony, outcomes will be determined in accordance with the official result of the relevant governing body, regardless of any subsequent disqualification or amendment to the result (except if an amendment is announced within 24 hours of the initial settlement of the relevant market in order to correct an error in reporting the result).
  • If a player does not start a tournament then all bets on that player will be void.
  • Any player starting a tournament but withdrawing or being disqualified before the end of the tournament will be settled as a loser.
  • If a tournament is shortened and Betfair settles the tournament markets then all bets matched after the last completed round will be void.
  • In any 'to qualify' market for any tournament the winners are the number of golfers that qualify for the tournament, whether they compete in the tournament or not. Markets will be settled after the qualifying stage and any subsequent disqualification or amendment to results will not count.
  • If a Tournament/Round is restarted from the beginning, all bets placed after the official off time will be void, except on markets which have been unconditionally determined, which will stand. Bets on 2 or 3 balls will only be void if matched after the tee time of the relevant 2 or 3 ball./li>
  • ‘Victory Margin’ markets will be settled on the official tournament result NOT including any playoff.
  • For ‘3 Balls’ or ‘2 Balls’ markets, all bets on these markets will stand irrespective of whether the players play in the same group or pairing as each other.
  
  

[Kaabee]

I think you will find every single book that offers Golf Futures uses those same terms. All players are action.

you're joking right?

[Optional]

I haven't looked at Bookmaker's rules but I believe the general rule is (or should be):
Did the player start the tournament?
If not, the wager should be voided.
If he started and withdrew it is a loser.
But if you're betting in the run and the player had already withdrawn when you placed the bet it should be voided.

With ante-post Golf markets you will often see "all golfers have action" listed in the market description.

I know at 5Dimes and Bet365 this over rides the no-start no-action clause in their general terms. Not certain about BM but given the grading i think it's safe to assume they work the same way.

I'm not certain why but think it's normal to have all players action due to the difficulty in obtaining timely info on what players are planning.



Here is the first mention I can find of the withdrawal from the PGA officially btw Golden: https://twitter.com/PGATOURmedia/sta...91677957586944

Out of interest, what time did you place your bet in relation to that?

[Optional]

If you would like SBR to double check that they have the grading right, feel free to submit a complaint form Golden: http://www.sportsbookreview.com/sportsbook-complaint/

[mtneer1212]

you're joking right?

Futures bets always go whether a player/horse/participant participates or not. So, no he is not joking.

[Kaabee]

Futures bets always go whether a player/horse/participant participates or not. So, no he is not joking.

glad i never bet golf

[Hareeba!]

Futures bets always go whether a player/horse/participant participates or not. So, no he is not joking.

Well that's not entirely true.
I do almost all my golf tournament betting at Betfair and I know it's always "no start, no bet"

And this from SBO where I also bet on golf:

19.1 All bets will be considered VALID, when both players (or all players in three ball or group) TEEs-OFF.

[Optional]

Head to head and Group betting will require both players to tee off.

It's pre tourney Futures on outright markets where this comes up.

Although I have just read Bet365's long golf rules and can't find any reference to what I am saying.

5 Dimes mentions it though;

In match-ups and futures, wagers on golfers NOT teeing off to begin an event will be graded no action unless otherwise noted. Wagers will not be refunded on any option where "all golfers have action" is listed.

[Hareeba!]

And from Pinnacle:

2. Wagers on a golfer who does not play in the tournament are graded as No Action, and all monies refunded.

[Optional]

DSI Rules FYI

Golf General Rules

Betting on all Major Golfing Events

• Straight money line betting as well as match-ups.
• Betting right up until tee-off time.
• In head-to-head match-ups, both golfers must tee-off in order to have action. If one player misses the cut, his opponent is deemed the winner. If both players miss the cut the lower score wins. If both players have the same score, then all wagers are refunded.

Special Handicap Head to Heads

If a player withdraws after tee off or misses the cut the player who plays the most holes wins. Playoffs do not count for handicap bets.

To Win a Tournament

• All bets are treated as "All In". All players quoted have action regardless if a player withdraws before the tournament begins and are settled as a loss.
• In the event of a tie where 3 or more competitors are offered in one betting option, the payout will be divided by the number of players tied. For example 2 players tie for the Top USA player at the British Open will result in the normal payout given divided by 2.
• If a tournament is shortened, after it has started, then all bets stand. Bets accepted after the end of a day's play are void unless there is further play, which counts towards the result of the tournament (other than a playoff). Or the betting is specifically stated to be on the outcome of a playoff.
• If a tournament is officially abandoned, all bets on the tournament are void, except options that have already been decided.

Unless specified otherwise, single daily round matchups are 18 holes only.

[StayGolden]

and I know for certain 5dimes and youwager refunds wagers on any players who do not start the tournament.

[StayGolden]

So with that rule, DSI takes shots at players. Leaving up players who have already withdrawn. I never bothered to check because any time ive had a player WD before tourney its always been refunded, at other books.

[Optional]

and I know for certain 5dimes and youwager refunds wagers on any players who do not start the tournament.

I have had the opposite experience with 5D. And genuinely thought this was fairly standard. But seems like there is more variation in books handling of them than I had realized.

I get your annoyance btw. I probably was annoyed the first time I was affected by this too.

[CarpeDime]

Coming from the same book that grades freeplays that push a loss, I shouldnt expect less.

THIS is completely industry standard though. What book refunds a free play push to the free play balance?

[StayGolden]

THIS is completely industry standard though. What book refunds a free play push to the free play balance?

5dimes, heritage, and youwager


I have been playing offshore for 16 years, in my experience bookmaker is in the minority regarding not refunding freeplays that push

[shaunovery]

All major firms has

If a player doesn't tee off then bets are void,

Unless it's ante post which generally is outright winner

[MDSmith]

Cannot possibly see any justification whatsoever for this rule, what an absolute rip off how can a bookmaker take a punters stake when he has backed a player to win a tournament or whatever the bet maybe and he doesn't even swing a club and they just take the money. It is like a horse being withbdrawn before the start of the race for whatever reason and the book says well the horse was listed as running so we get to keep your money sorry !! do me a favour i have never heard anything like that in my life is that the same in snooker too if a player is ill and the match is a w/o that take the money too. Most if not all books in the UK would refund your stake no question.

[Majman]

Regardless of rules, if a player proves that the golfer has publicly declared himself from a tournament prior to the wager being placed, the wager needs to be refunded.

[relaaxx]

bookmaker is taking shots at every customer that bets golf . and the free play thing is nuts too. said this for years --- the only thing they are good for is that they will pay you. big deal. others books will pay you while not taking advantage of you every chance they get. someone from bookmaker should see this thread and get the rules changed but i don't think so because they like doing this kind of nickel and dime stuff. it adds up quick.

[StayGolden]

Squeaky wheel gets the grease I suppose... didn't contact them any further after this thread, but noticed today my wager has been refunded.

I hope they have changed their rule so others aren't getting burned by this

[Optional]

Cannot possibly see any justification whatsoever for this rule, what an absolute rip off how can a bookmaker take a punters stake when he has backed a player to win a tournament or whatever the bet maybe and he doesn't even swing a club and they just take the money. It is like a horse being withbdrawn before the start of the race for whatever reason and the book says well the horse was listed as running so we get to keep your money sorry !! do me a favour i have never heard anything like that in my life is that the same in snooker too if a player is ill and the match is a w/o that take the money too. Most if not all books in the UK would refund your stake no question.

That is exactly what happens with Ante Post horse race betting.

Melbourne Cup is on next week. Check your books and see if you can find one who does not have the market listed as all-in.

[Kaabee]

It appears that 5dimes tournament bets are not all-in bets on a week to week basis. Only the long term ones are.

PGA The McGladrey Classic
Thu 10/23 7:00AM

PGA 2015 Majors & Specials US Open 2015
Thu 10/23 1:00AM
All players have action

[shaunovery]

That is exactly what happens with Ante Post horse race betting.

Melbourne Cup is on next week. Check your books and see if you can find one who does not have the market listed as all-in.

A lot of books offer money back on non runners as long as it's within 5 days of the event

[MDSmith]

That is exactly what happens with Ante Post horse race betting.

Melbourne Cup is on next week. Check your books and see if you can find one who does not have the market listed as all-in.

I didn't mention ante-post betting on horse racing because the whole world and his granny knows that if you back a horse ante-post for a big race and it gets pulled or injured you lose your money and that is the risk of betting Ante post and to be honest i don't agree with it nor do i think this is right either. In most other sports in the UK for example Snooker, Tennis, Golf if a player does not start an event the bet is voided and surely this is common sense. A punter backs a player to win an event and he doesn't compete how is it then right to take the punters money ? it clearly isn't and now that you have brought Ante-Post into the equation the relevant governing bodies were going to have a detailed look into this as there has been numerous high profile cases in recent years where trainers have pulled horses out at a ridiculous late stages for really questionable reasons and the bookmaker has made a mint. The bottom line for me is that i think it plain wrong and it is just another way of the bookmaking industry screwing punters over a bit like when you back a horse which was evns and there was very little money for it and it returns 4-5 so if you had £200 on it they have screwed you over for £20. Very under hand tactics are so often used so often like the ridiculous Cash Out system which has only ever benefited the bookmaker.

[jtoler]

That's a messed up thing, seeing there is no way that your bet could have won, with that said, if what they stated is actually in the rules, honestly you cant blame them since its right there, messed up rule yes, but they've covered themselves by stating it beforehand.

[rangerz2478]

and I know for certain 5dimes and youwager refunds wagers on any players who do not start the tournament.

You don't know for certain, because you are dead wrong.

I DO know for certain that 5dimes will action if you bet a golfer to win the tournament under futures who does not start the tournament. All wagers are 100% action on futures, start or not. Head to heads or props are another story.

[StayGolden]

You don't know for certain, because you are dead wrong.

I DO know for certain that 5dimes will action if you bet a golfer to win the tournament under futures who does not start the tournament. All wagers are 100% action on futures, start or not. Head to heads or props are another story.

you may be talking betting tournies like masters and the open months in advance.

Im talking about betting the current weeks tourney before it starts.

[Kaabee]

you may be talking betting tournies like masters and the open months in advance.

Im talking about betting the current weeks tourney before it starts.

yep only the one months in advance are action like i showed in my earlier post.