[shaunovery]

Anyone knows how this works I've tried reading on the website but it seems confusing

[Hareeba!]

LOL!

And you seriously think there's a chance of getting a less confusing (and reliable) answer on a public forum?

[shaunovery]

LOL!

And you seriously think there's a chance of getting a less confusing (and reliable) answer on a public forum?

Hopefully I'll get 1 sensible comment

[Art Vandeleigh]

Hareeba is sort of correct. To pay premium charge, you have to be not just profitable, but very profitable week after week after week (either because you're an amazing handicapper or more likely because you have a tehnological edge). If you are able to profit week after week for either of these reasons, you should be able to follow along with how Betfair describes it. If you're not very profitable you won't have to worry about premium charge.

[Optional]

If your lifetime profit is more than 5 times the amount of commission paid you qualify.

They exclude any big wins from the calc though, so it would be pretty strange if any regular punter got caught up in it.

[dealer wins]

I have flirted with the PC, and have used up my £1000 allowance. But I still dont understand it fully, and luckily have managed to lose a good few £ in Betfair since flirting with the PC.

IMO its akin to theft, immoral and it has made me hate betfair with a passion.

I still have to use it a lot, but Matchbook could finally break betfair's grip on the exchange monopoly, and I would like nothing more than Betfair to go bust!!

[Hareeba!]

I have flirted with the PC, and have used up my £1000 allowance. But I still dont understand it fully, and luckily have managed to lose a good few £ in Betfair since flirting with the PC.

IMO its akin to theft, immoral and it has made me hate betfair with a passion.

I still have to use it a lot, but Matchbook could finally break betfair's grip on the exchange monopoly, and I would like nothing more than Betfair to go bust!!

Much as I don't agree with Betfair's PC policy, them going bust would be utterly disastrous for me. I don't see any horse racing at Matchbook? No other book comes close to Betfair on the horses.
Also Matchbook don't offer near as many other sporting markets as Betfair.
There is a relatively simply way to keep out of the way of the PC.

[faststeady]

hareeba you should look into citi bet for horses , its where i play daily nowadays

[jjgold]

it does not affect most players so do not worry about it

[Hareeba!]

hareeba you should look into citi bet for horses , its where i play daily nowadays

Yes, I've been looking at that for a while but for the time being I think I can do just as well at Betfair.

[Hareeba!]

it does not affect most players so do not worry about it

It probably affects more players than you'd think.

I know a pretty small time punter who's now subject to it.

[Optional]

It probably affects more players than you'd think.

I know a pretty small time punter who's now subject to it.

Thats a surprise.

Is he just an amazing capper or got caught out with a streak or a few big wins? Or something else?

[Hareeba!]

Thats a surprise.

Is he just an amazing capper or got caught out with a streak or a few big wins? Or something else?

No. He's smart at maths and mostly plays lays on the horses but for pretty small stakes but doesn't study form at all.
I'm not sure what the criteria for the PC is any more but believe it's not so much the total you've won but more to do with the relativity between the commission you've paid and your profits.
The guy actually is pleased to be on the PC. He reckons it enables him to win more for less risk!
I'm not smart enough to get my head around the maths of that though.

[Optional]

Good on him.

Would love to know his logic for that. Sounds like the sort of concept/info you could almost sell.

[thesquare]

No. He's smart at maths and mostly plays lays on the horses but for pretty small stakes but doesn't study form at all.
I'm not sure what the criteria for the PC is any more but believe it's not so much the total you've won but more to do with the relativity between the commission you've paid and your profits.
The guy actually is pleased to be on the PC. He reckons it enables him to win more for less risk!

I'm not smart enough to get my head around the maths of that though.

At first glance the math looks pretty simple and I can't imagine how paying 60% tax on profits can be better than not paying it.

But if the key element here is risk/reward ratio then maybe he is tracking his numbers considering that if he loses a big bet he will be off the premium charge therefore not paying 60% of the already made profits for that month. This scenario is the only way I can see this can affect his risk/reward ratio, but as I mentioned, I don't know all the ins and outs of the PC

[caveira]

Betunfair, that's what they are...

[davidchong]

hareeba you should look into citi bet for horses , its where i play daily nowadays

i need an account for citi any agent?

[Hareeba!]

Betunfair, that's what they are...

Not as unfair as all those "bookmakers" who won't let you on for a bet and close your account.

[jjgold]

It probably affects more players than you'd think.

I know a pretty small time punter who's now subject to it.

Is it based on win rate or percentages or amount won??

[Hareeba!]

Is it based on win rate or percentages or amount won??

There are a number of criteria but this is probably the key one:

a) Add up all the charges paid by a customer, over the lifetime of the account.
b) Then add up the lifetime profit (if any on the same account)
Is the result of a), above, less than 20% of the result for b), above?
If it is, that means that the lifetime charges paid by that customer amount to less than 20% of his lifetime winnings. Therefore he is in the Premium Charge firing line.

But then there is also the:
NEW HIGHER BETFAIR PREMIUM CHARGE CRITERIA:
Lifetime net profits exceed £250,000
Lifetime commission generated less than 40% of lifetime gross profits
Bet in more than 1,000 markets
The Premium Charge rate applied to each customer that satisfies these conditions is dependent on their lifetime commission generated to gross profits ratio. The exact rate will be determined by the following table:
Lifetime commission generated
to gross profits ratio Applicable Premium Charge rate
< 5% 60%
5% – 10% 50%
> 10% 40%

[shaunovery]

Just started scalping on the horses doing very nicely at present 30-40 pound a day with hardly no risk just building the bankroll

[addictedto]

Whoever has premium charge must be proud because it means he is a winner.

[Hareeba!]

Whoever has premium charge must be proud because it means he is a winner.

a winner yes but also not smart enough to avoid being caught up in the thing

[TennisProFrance]

Betfair are the biggest oysters in the industry cos of PC, I penetrating hate them. If you are at all successful on BF you will be hit by the PC, if your not then you are a fake or not successful.

**********************************

[Hareeba!]

Betfair are the biggest oysters in the industry cos of PC, I penetrating hate them. If you are at all successful on BF you will be hit by the PC, if your not then you are a fake or not successful.

**********************************

Not necessarily true at all.
I do ok at Betfair but haven't been hit with the PC.
And I don't expect to be, largely due to the strategy I employ.

[shaunovery]

Apparently you have to make 250k net before they hit you

[Hareeba!]

Apparently you have to make 250k net before they hit you

That was the case when the PC was first introduced but no longer as I understand it.

[jjgold]

heck I wish I could win 250k and then get premium

I rather have premium than losing

anyway I wonder why they do this?? It does not make sense at an exchange

[Hareeba!]

heck I wish I could win 250k and then get premium

I rather have premium than losing

You no longer have to have won that much to be hit with the PC.
My mate who actually likes the PC most certainly hasn't won anywhere near that.

[addictedto]

Not necessarily true at all.
I do ok at Betfair but haven't been hit with the PC.
And I don't expect to be, largely due to the strategy I employ.

How do you avoid it? Because BF hates PC avoidance and closes accounts for that.

[Hareeba!]

How do you avoid it? Because BF hates PC avoidance and closes accounts for that.

What they won't tolerate is collusion to avoid it.
Nothing wrong with simply adopting a strategy which ensures your profits/commission ratio doesn't trigger the PC.
A large volume of bets which perform pretty much close to break-even after commission will keep your ratio in check.

[TennisProFrance]

You can win 5k and be hit by PC, the 250k£ is for super PC which is 60%. You dont need to be a big winner to have pay the PC.

I'm not going into the details of how I avoid the PC, but it's costly. BF are fukkers and will trace you for PC avoidance and hit you with a big bill. Need to be smart to stay one step ahead, and its not easy. I would say, any serious player, who is semi-successful on BF will be effected within 1 year. If PC doesn't hit you then you I question your ROI.

[TennisProFrance]

What they won't tolerate is collusion to avoid it.
Nothing wrong with simply adopting a strategy which ensures your profits/commission ratio doesn't trigger the PC.
A large volume of bets which perform pretty much close to break-even after commission will keep your ratio in check.

Whats the point of that. Sounds like you are hugely limiting yourself and your potential profits just to direct money to the BF fund.

[Hareeba!]

Whats the point of that. Sounds like you are hugely limiting yourself and your potential profits just to direct money to the BF fund.

huh?
The point is that
a) it keeps my commission/profits ratio high enough to stay out of the PC's net, and
b) it earns me valuable loyalty points which reduces the commission I have to pay on my serious bets

If it adds to Betfair's bottom line at no cost to me that's fine. We need Betfair to prosper so that we can do likewise.

[Optional]

You can win 5k and be hit by PC, the 250k£ is for super PC which is 60%. You dont need to be a big winner to have pay the PC.

I'm not going into the details of how I avoid the PC, but it's costly. BF are fuckers and will trace you for PC avoidance and hit you with a big bill. Need to be smart to stay one step ahead, and its not easy. I would say, any serious player, who is semi-successful on BF will be effected within 1 year. If PC doesn't hit you then you I question your ROI.

You need to do yourself a favor and listen to Hareeba on this one. He's giving good advice.