[daringly]

Matchbook... no premium charge, and commissions are smaller. For US sports, it's mandatory.

[jjgold]

Yes matchbook is a must for U.S. Sports

Everyone still would Want a betfair account regardless of premium charges

[TennisProFrance]

You need to do yourself a favor and listen to Hareeba on this one. He's giving good advice.

What a load of bollocks. He is talkign shit and out of his depth, he's a small horse punter who earns pennies. If you're concerned about earning BF points to reduce your commission your a mug small punter, period. Any SERIOUS player knows exactly what I'm talking about, this is my job, I have been very successful doing what I do for over 10 years, don't question my credentials or compare me to some mug small punter worried about reducing his commission %. I'm not here to educate mugs, one day you might even be educated enough to even know what I'm talking about.

BF are the biggest oysters going.

Matchbook has very limited use, it's a turnover based commission structure.

[Hareeba!]

What a load of bollocks. He is talkign shit and out of his depth, he's a small horse punter who earns pennies. If you're concerned about earning BF points to reduce your commission your a mug small punter, period. Any SERIOUS player knows exactly what I'm talking about, this is my job, I have been very successful doing what I do for over 10 years, don't question my credentials or compare me to some mug small punter worried about reducing his commission %. I'm not here to educate mugs, one day you might even be educated enough to even know what I'm talking about.

BF are the biggest oysters going.

Matchbook has very limited use, it's a turnover based commission structure.

Good on yer TPF!
I have never claimed to be big time like you.
But I too have been betting successfully for over 10 years.
You may not be interested in avoiding the PC or maintaining lower commission rates at Betfair but the very existence of this thread shows clearly that many are and that is what I've been posting about.
You say I'm talking "a load of bollocks" yet fail to point out where I'm wrong.
But of course you're not here to educate us. Just to tell us how smart and successful you are.

[Optional]

What a load of bollocks. He is talkign shit and out of his depth, he's a small horse punter who earns pennies. If you're concerned about earning BF points to reduce your commission your a mug small punter, period. Any SERIOUS player knows exactly what I'm talking about, this is my job, I have been very successful doing what I do for over 10 years, don't question my credentials or compare me to some mug small punter worried about reducing his commission %. I'm not here to educate mugs, one day you might even be educated enough to even know what I'm talking about.

BF are the biggest oysters going.

Matchbook has very limited use, it's a turnover based commission structure.

The size of his bets does not change the fact what he advised is 100% correct. And smart.

You so far are just attacking and refusing to help educate as an excuse not to back up your bollocks claim.

I didn't question your credentials before, but this post sure makes me wonder if you are smart enough to place bets unaided let alone win consistently. Big timer

[allin1]

The size of his bets does not change the fact what he advised is 100% correct. And smart.

You so far are just attacking and refusing to help educate as an excuse not to back up your bollocks claim.

I didn't question your credentials before, but this post sure makes me wonder if you are smart enough to place bets unaided let alone win consistently. Big timer

Optional why would you make such a post?

I think TPF knows what he is talking about. I believe he has a 6 to 7 digits bankroll that's why for him things are quite different. The theory is that if you really have a good edge you will multiply your bankroll quite fast. If Hareeba after 10 years is still chasing betpoints then surely he is grinding things out... Successfully making a living out of it, yes, but it seems to me TPF is on a different level when it comes to sharpness. I have seen his type of attitude at other very big sharps and it doesn't surprise me. All the big sharps hate betfair that's why he probably reacted this way when he sees someone dedicating the majority of his forumville time praising and defending betfair and especially when someone advises him to "listen" to the betfair "fan".

The big difference is that a big hitter does not need to chase betpoints because his weekly turnover is immense. I am not defending his insults, but surely his lack of patience and tolerance does not justify the insult you just threw at him. You can call him rude and maybe even question his wisdom if you want to go there as a comeback, but when it comes to betting... I really think he knows what he is doing and is on a totally different level than 99% of us posters in forumville.

[TennisProFrance]

Thank you allin, you understand the game and I'm sure one day you will reach the big league.

I dont care for betpoints, I have enough for $500 of pinny cash I guess, its nothing to me, why dont I give you these points and you go cash out $500 of pinny cash and try to build with it? Only thing I ask is you make something of it, you give me the $500 back. Deal?

[Optional]

Optional why would you make such a post?

So people like you that might be inclined to believe a post of "Thats bollocks" about the useful information that had been shared might realize which post was actually the bollocks.


If you or TennisPro can explain why Hareeba's advice is "bollocks" please help me and everyone else out by correcting me. I'd be pleased to be set straight about my own miscomprehension if it exists.

[allin1]

So people like you that might be inclined to believe a post of "Thats bollocks" about the useful information that had been shared might realize which post was actually the bollocks.

If you or TennisPro can explain why Hareeba's advice is "bollocks" please help me and everyone else out by correcting me. I'd be pleased to be set straight about my own miscomprehension if it exists.

Hareeba's advice is not bollocks. I never said it was, but TPF is on a totally different level, so your statement regarding TPF's ability to bet (that I criticized) is still 100% ludicrous.

Hareeba's advice is probably good for small to medium fish, but TPF is a big shark so in his world Hareeba's post is bollocks. I also believe that his negative reaction was driven by his hate for betfair and their lack of morals when it comes to winners with a respectable ROI.

Thank you allin, you understand the game and I'm sure one day you will reach the big league.

I dont care for betpoints, I have enough for $500 of pinny cash I guess, its nothing to me, why dont I give you these points and you go cash out $500 of pinny cash and try to build with it? Only thing I ask is you make something of it, you give me the $500 back. Deal?

If I understand the game it's because I have learned from justin7/daringly and from other sharps on forums or through emails, but I am still a small stakes amateur. Need to get off my ass and make things happen.

I will have to refuse your offer as I am not a pro on SBR anymore and I can't use the betpoints anyway. I also never gamble with loaned money. Thanks a lot anyway.

[Hareeba!]

Ok, so may bankroll doesn't make it to 7 figures. PDF is clearly a bigger player than I am. So?

I've never claimed to be big time or "sharp".

Perhaps he could do me a favour and tell all those corporate cowards that I'm just such a small time mug so they can give me my accounts back without peanut limits?

My post at which PDF took aim was one in which I attempted to answer another poster's query as to what strategy I employ to dodge the Premium Charge.

The fact that it also provides an advantage in delivering betpoints and thus maintaining a lower commission level was simply mentioned as an additional bonus. Hardly equates to my spending all my time chasing betpoints!

My prime activity these days is on horseracing. And I'm precluded from playing almost everywhere else most days. So yes Betfair is very important to me and thus keeping out of the way of the PC and paying lower commission all helps to add to my bottom line (insignificant though it may be to PDF).

[T4TRUTH]

betfair has by far been the leader in this whole match betting exchange. sports and horses alike. there have been many try but never got close. trying to be misereable and cheap about paying any fees or commisions is ridiculous, you are paying out of profits "winnings" so who cares. I have played many a pick six over the years and hit a few , to say the least I was tickled pink when the irs withheld 35k from my pick six ticket
yeah I could have got more cash that day but 100k plus was fine for my $438 investment. so why moan about paying taxes or fees or commisions when you are winning .. it makes no sense , no sense at all.

[Hareeba!]

betfair has by far been the leader in this whole match betting exchange. sports and horses alike. there have been many try but never got close. trying to be misereable and cheap about paying any fees or commisions is ridiculous, you are paying out of profits "winnings" so who cares. I have played many a pick six over the years and hit a few , to say the least I was tickled pink when the irs withheld 35k from my pick six ticket
yeah I could have got more cash that day but 100k plus was fine for my $438 investment. so why moan about paying taxes or fees or commisions when you are winning .. it makes no sense , no sense at all.

Pretty dumb post.

You seem to not comprehend that high commission rates can mean the difference between a winning and a losing outcome?

[T4TRUTH]

you seem to not to understand that commision is ON WINNINGS. therefore you are winning period. perhaps it is yu who does not understand ... or I tell you what Please copy and paste a copy of where you got CHARGED COMMISIONS ON YOUR LOSES?????

[T4TRUTH]

Pretty dumb post.

You seem to not comprehend that high commission rates can mean the difference between a winning and a losing outcome?

Seriously though, I do not want tog et into anything directly with you. but it is simple business, you must calculate the commision rates into your strategy so they make money off you when you win and they make money off your money when you lose, at the other winners expense, but to say its not fair, well factor it in to your strategy and be happy to pay, and be happy to maybe be the highest paying client ever and you will notice, you will be so turned off by it, my point being that if you are making enough profit to where it becomes an outrageous number you pay to them , wel live must be good.....

[Hareeba!]

you seem to not to understand that commision is ON WINNINGS. therefore you are winning period. perhaps it is yu who does not understand ... or I tell you what Please copy and paste a copy of where you got CHARGED COMMISIONS ON YOUR LOSES?????

Oh dear!

Losing bets (in different markets) are not offset against winning bets before commission is calculated and deducted.

It's like a business being taxed on its revenue but getting no deduction allowed for its expenses.

[T4TRUTH]

No I get it, I was pointing out that yes, in the business model, you just have to factor it in and call it "the price of doing business". the model in place at betfair is perfect for turning profits. so when I saw people complaining and saying they hate betfair and wish them to go out of business , well that probably what got me posting, and your posts are usually sensible so I replied to you.. betfair is such a giant now that the only way they go bust is the board of directors decides they do not want to profit anymore... lol

[Foxx]

Apparently you have to make 250k net before they hit you

250,000bp which is about 400,000usd.

[shaunovery]

Thank you for your e-mail.



At this present time you are not close to paying the Premium charge for you to get close to playing the charge you will need to win at least £20000 clear profit on your account.

If you have any further enquiries, please do not hesitate to contact us again, or check the frequently asked questions on our Help and Learning site

This is the email I received asking about how much more I need to win

[jjgold]

200,000 British pounds is not that bad of a cut off

And if you get to that level you're sure not to worry about playing premium charges because you're winning a player anyway

[Foxx]

hareeba you should look into citi bet for horses , its where i play daily nowadays

Does citibet offer markets on US horse racing? How do you sign up? I only see where you can log in on the website. Thanks.

[faststeady]

yes they offer US races/dogs and trots.

It works as an exchange with tote/para odds as a baseline and works with a rebate structure from there (ie layers offer % back and bettors offer what % they want ) Simple way to describe how this works if you want 10 bucks on a horse and place your bet at 20% you only pay 8 bucks for your ticket basically.

[Hareeba!]

200,000 British pounds is not that bad of a cut off

And if you get to that level you're sure not to worry about playing premium charges because you're winning a player anyway

Firstly, there is no longer a 200K GBP threshold for the PC

And the next sentence is just plain dumb.

[Foxx]

Firstly, there is no longer a 200K GBP threshold for the PC

And the next sentence is just plain dumb.

The threshold is for Super PC and it's 250,000 pounds.

[jjgold]

Why are we talking about this when very very very few ever get the premium charge??

That's fair is a premium book so you're going to pay if you're very very successful

Successful players willing to pay to win

[Foxx]

Why are we talking about this when very very very few ever get the premium charge??

That's fair is a premium book so you're going to pay if you're very very successful

Successful players willing to pay to win

Betfair claims that less than .5% of customers are affected by Premium Charge which means higher than .4% and less than .5%. Since they would want to downplay the number of people affected, I would guess they used the number of registered customers and not active customers in that calculation. They have at least 4 million registered customers which would put the number of people affected around 20,000.

As for why we are even talking about it, I am pretty sure your posting contract doesn't require you to participate in all threads so don't feel the need to post in this thread if you think it is stupid.

[Hareeba!]

Why are we talking about this when very very very few ever get the premium charge??

That's fair is a premium book so you're going to pay if you're very very successful

Successful players willing to pay to win

You don't need to be "very very successful" to be subjected to the PC.

Based on the number of players I know there are far more being charged the PC than you realise.

[jjgold]

Hareeba you think over 500?

[Hareeba!]

Hareeba you think over 500?

I'm thinking more like over 5,000

[kkkkk]

i think between 10-20% of the active members are subject of the PC

[shaunovery]

All I know is that betfair have told me I have to win at least 20k before I'm liable to pay any of the PC charge so I'll be happy to win that' first

[Hareeba!]

All I know is that betfair have told me I have to win at least 20k before I'm liable to pay any of the PC charge so I'll be happy to win that' first

That comes as a bit of a surprise to me as it seems contrary to what I'd been reading about the way it now works.

Do you have that as a categoric statement from them in writing or was it simply an estimate based on your betting history?

[faststeady]

shaun is close to correct for new accounts although im led to believe its a bit higher than 20k, but this is just straight winning rather than trading or turning over a slower profit and churning money.

[shaunovery]

That comes as a bit of a surprise to me as it seems contrary to what I'd been reading about the way it now works.

Do you have that as a categoric statement from them in writing or was it simply an estimate based on your betting history?

I got that in a email after me asking them to review my p&l starements.

They say you only pay PC after your account is in profit for the lifetime of your account, I've had a count for about 8 yrs must of shown how much I've lost

Got fed up with losing so now I'm trading not betting don't care who wins and losing just scalping trading horses and sports

Got all the software required geeks toy etc been doing ok for the lAst month just small stakes

[Hareeba!]

Premium Charge Summary

You will only be considered for the Premium Charge if, over the lifetime of your account, you satisfy the following criteria:

• Your account is in profit;
• Your total charges generated are less than 20%† of gross profits; and
• You bet in more than 250 markets.

Two further conditions reduce the likelihood that you will be required to pay the Premium Charge:

• Any single win that constitutes more than 50% of your gross profits over the lifetime of your account will be excluded from the calculation; and
• Each customer will have a lifetime allowance of £1,000 against the Premium Charge.

[shaunovery]

What I struggle with is why do they charge it

It's only a exchange between customers they still get there commission on your winning bets