[Thryleon]

The only comment I will make for the final is "crime and punishment". The immutable law of football is that when you miss your chances you will concede a goal. But I will make a comment of your comparisons.

Croatia may have a few good players but it has never been a team. That's why I am not counting them among the top clubs. So is Serbia and Bosnia. A collection of FINE players but NOT a team.

Since you made a direct comparison with Poland, I will point out that:

Polland has produced very few world class players. Boniek, Lato, Lewandowski, Warzycha, Deyna, Smolarek and that's about it. Portugal on the other hand has produced the legend called Eusebio. Now they have produced a second legend under CR7. None of the Polish players can compare to Luis Figo, Pauleta, Deco, Paolo Souza and the list is endless. Portugal had only one weakness which seems to have been solved with Rui Patricio. They never had a world class goalkeeper or world class defenders (except Pepe who, for me, is a clown). That's why you lost from Greece twice. The only thing that Greeks produce is world class defenders. Manolas will cost 20 million Euros to move from Roma. Kyriakos Papadopoulos and Papastathopoulos excel in Germany. Do you remember what Dortmund said when they took Papastathopoulos? "We took the player that managed to stop Messi". Manolas and Papastathopoulos at this minute constitute the fastest duo of defenders globally. But apart from that Greeks have not produced any one else. You have produced a lot.

[NBA Maniac]

Portugal is "making transiction", old players will start to leave and youngers need to start entering in the squads... ( Is not weird that the actual coach tried many different tactics and players in the qualification stage, before the tournment.

Our Nation, the "people" has always been passionated by the Football/soccer. We lived it with same intense as countrys a lot bigger then us, such as Brazil, Germany, Spain, England and others...But unfortently we had never won any big competition until yesterday.

BUT for a country little as us, we already accomplished many things in a lot of different sports around the World. (Just google it...)

(sorry for my bad english, but no time to read it again before post and correct it lol)

[SlickRick1382]

The only comment I will make for the final is "crime and punishment". The immutable law of football is that when you miss your chances you will concede a goal. But I will make a comment of your comparisons.

Croatia may have a few good players but it has never been a team. That's why I am not counting them among the top clubs. So is Serbia and Bosnia. A collection of FINE players but NOT a team.

Since you made a direct comparison with Poland, I will point out that:

Polland has produced very few world class players. Boniek, Lato, Lewandowski, Warzycha, Deyna, Smolarek and that's about it. Portugal on the other hand has produced the legend called Eusebio. Now they have produced a second legend under CR7. None of the Polish players can compare to Luis Figo, Pauleta, Deco, Paolo Souza and the list is endless. Portugal had only one weakness which seems to have been solved with Rui Patricio. They never had a world class goalkeeper or world class defenders (except Pepe who, for me, is a clown). That's why you lost from Greece twice. The only thing that Greeks produce is world class defenders. Manolas will cost 20 million Euros to move from Roma. Kyriakos Papadopoulos and Papastathopoulos excel in Germany. Do you remember what Dortmund said when they took Papastathopoulos? "We took the player that managed to stop Messi". Manolas and Papastathopoulos at this minute constitute the fastest duo of defenders globally. But apart from that Greeks have not produced any one else. You have produced a lot.

France wasn't the only one to miss chances. Just like Portugal missed chances in the group stages... And all this without their best player.

Croatia isn't a good team? They beat Spain while resting some player and won their group. Croatia is a top team and will be a top team in the foreseeable future with their midfield.

Poland may not have produced as many good players as Portugal but I'm making the reference that Portugal is a SMALL nation who just happens to produce some good and great footballers but being lumped into the expectations of the Germany, Spain, etc. is unfair when they have 5-8 times more population which arguably makes it a bit easier to produce more talent. Hence why smaller nations tend to struggle and these tournaments are normally, not always, won by the larger nations.

Interesting that not too long ago people were praising and shower Atletico Madrid for their defensive solidarity and hard work in beating Barcelona and Bayern Munich. Everyone said it was excellent coaching and great defense. Yet Portugal does something similar and are cast as the villains ...

Unfairly treated imo ....

[Thryleon]

It may look unfair but it is actually not. It all depends on the expectations, the rosters and the fit of each sport to the mentality of the population. You said that Germany and Spain and every other country with a greater population than yours is expected to produce more footballers and produce better teams. Let me put it to you this way:

1) It is said that Brazians are born with a football between their legs. A country with a much greater population than Portugal. And yet football is THE ONLY sport that they are expected to excel.
2) It is said that the children in Finland are born with a stearing wheel in their hands. Hence the best drivers in the world are from Finland and noone expects anything else from the Finnish because that's their calling.
3) The U.S.A. should have broduced excellent players by now. Yet there has only been London Donovan. Why? Because they have no interest in football.
4) Russia should have been the world power in football. Yet, their only successes come from the ex-USSR regime where failure was punished severely. Why? Because the Russians are losers by nature.
5) Greece has a similar population with Portugal. Yet, our national sport is basketball and not football. Why? Because it suites with our nature better. We have been playing football for 100 years and basketball for 60. Yet we have produced a Nick Galis, Spanoulis, Diamantidis, Papaloukas, Bouroussis, and a multitude of other great basketball players while we have not produced any worth mentioning footballers. Why? Because this is our nature.
6) Germany's nature is one. DISCIPLINE. In everything. They produce great teams that have achieved titles and successes because of this trait. But they will never produce legends. Why? Because discipline takes away spontaneousness. And this is something the Germans do not have.
7) Spain followed a program that allowed the production of a generation of good players. Buit if you check there is no follow up. Why? Because they spend too much money on bringing in players while they are sending theirs out.
8) Italy has based its successes on trickery and mafia methods. As soon as those where countered, Italy is nowhere to be found.

The list could go on and on. Each nation has a characterizing trait. Portuguese and Brazilians are about the same. You probably have not advanced further in football because you never realized your true potential.

[SlickRick1382]

It may look unfair but it is actually not. It all depends on the expectations, the rosters and the fit of each sport to the mentality of the population. You said that Germany and Spain and every other country with a greater population than yours is expected to produce more footballers and produce better teams. Let me put it to you this way:

1) It is said that Brazians are born with a football between their legs. A country with a much greater population than Portugal. And yet football is THE ONLY sport that they are expected to excel.
2) It is said that the children in Finland are born with a stearing wheel in their hands. Hence the best drivers in the world are from Finland and noone expects anything else from the Finnish because that's their calling.
3) The U.S.A. should have broduced excellent players by now. Yet there has only been London Donovan. Why? Because they have no interest in football.
4) Russia should have been the world power in football. Yet, their only successes come from the ex-USSR regime where failure was punished severely. Why? Because the Russians are losers by nature.
5) Greece has a similar population with Portugal. Yet, our national sport is basketball and not football. Why? Because it suites with our nature better. We have been playing football for 100 years and basketball for 60. Yet we have produced a Nick Galis, Spanoulis, Diamantidis, Papaloukas, Bouroussis, and a multitude of other great basketball players while we have not produced any worth mentioning footballers. Why? Because this is our nature.
6) Germany's nature is one. DISCIPLINE. In everything. They produce great teams that have achieved titles and successes because of this trait. But they will never produce legends. Why? Because discipline takes away spontaneousness. And this is something the Germans do not have.
7) Spain followed a program that allowed the production of a generation of good players. Buit if you check there is no follow up. Why? Because they spend too much money on bringing in players while they are sending theirs out.
8) Italy has based its successes on trickery and mafia methods. As soon as those where countered, Italy is nowhere to be found.

The list could go on and on. Each nation has a characterizing trait. Portuguese and Brazilians are about the same. You probably have not advanced further in football because you never realized your true potential.

I'm done discussing anything with you because you're going off into a tangent and plucking random nonsense out of the year. Most of the time you make little sense ...

I didn't bring Russia into this for instance because they're more into hockey than football. USA obviously plays every other sport imaginable and soccer isn't as popular here. Hence why they don't dominate. But make no mistake once Soccer becomes what American football or basketball is here in the US then they will dominate football as well ....

#7 same can be said for Portugal who are sending their players out ...

Portugal and Brazilians are not really the same ....

and I'm never furthered my career in football because I played American football and basketball being that I grew up in the States.

We're done

Have a nice day ...

[Thryleon]

I may not have grown up in the U.S.A. but I have stayed there long enough to have a pretty good idea what is going on. I can understand why you think that I am making no sense. Do they still teach you in school that Greece is near China? Do they still teach you in school that Alexander the Great was nothing but a slayer of worlds? Do they still teach you in school that Napoleon was a dictator? Do they still teach you in school that the American colours must always rise above anyone else's? With an education like that it is not surprising that your brains can not understand what I am saying. Fortunately the Europeans do. And you are as far away from the mentality of the Old Continent as your compatriots.

[SlickRick1382]

I may not have grown up in the U.S.A. but I have stayed there long enough to have a pretty good idea what is going on. I can understand why you think that I am making no sense. Do they still teach you in school that Greece is near China? Do they still teach you in school that Alexander the Great was nothing but a slayer of worlds? Do they still teach you in school that Napoleon was a dictator? Do they still teach you in school that the American colours must always rise above anyone else's? With an education like that it is not surprising that your brains can not understand what I am saying. Fortunately the Europeans do. And you are as far away from the mentality of the Old Continent as your compatriots.

I very familiar with the map of Europe being that I'm of Portuguese descent and frequent Europe every year, not just Portugal... Not only that but I speak it fluently and studied Portuguese history, literature, etc. in separate schooling my whole life while growing up ....

Nothing that you mentioned was ever taught to anyone here. Only someone ignorant with a disdain or hate for the United States would spout off some nonsense like that. You're acting as if you're superior to anyone ... You, personally, are a nobody, live with it ....

With an education like that? Like what? I'm a CPA with my own accounting practice among other business ventures.

The fact that you replied with this bullshit and insults further shows how ignorant you are....


Also your comments about the old Continent and Europeans is even more ironic considering that Greece shares VERY little in common with Western Europeans and the Anglo mentality of Europe. They're viewed by a MAJORITY of Europe as the least hardworking people in Europe ...

Perhaps Europeans don't really understand you and I'm obviously more European than you .....

[Thryleon]

I had to make a lot of speeches and presentations about the Minoan culture and the Ancient Greeks when I studied at Kent State Univeristy in 1984. At that time all of what I mentioned was taught in the U.S. high schools along with other bits and pieces of nonsense and inaccuracy. So I know EXACTLY what I had to deal with and I have the paperwork to prove it, so what you say is plain BS. You may have studied someplace where these were corrected but it does not mean that they were not taught as you say.

Me, personally am ME. Who is ME is noone's business but my own. Good luck with your CPA and your own accounting practice. Since you were kind enough to inform us of who you are, let me repay the courtesy by presenting my PhD in Applied Nuclear Technology from Kent State University.

I do not give a rat's ass about what the rest of the world thinks aboput the Greeks. Jealousy always leaves an unpleasant bitter taste. We had language, literature, culture and society when everyone else was still a hunter-gatherer species and lived in caves (except the Chinese). And they never forgave us for that. Your CPA was possible because of our discoveries. Your language was possible because of us. Democracy was possible because of us. Fredom of speech was made possible because of us. You don't like it? DEAL WITH IT!

Perhaps you need to re-read my previous comments a little more carefully. Maybe this time you will understand that I am not going off into a tangent or plucking random nonsense out. Maybe this time you may want to use your brain to think a bit deeper than the surface you got stuck at. I am not superior ro anyone. If you don't understand what I wrote, I would be happy to explain.

[SlickRick1382]

I had to make a lot of speeches and presentations about the Minoan culture and the Ancient Greeks when I studied at Kent State Univeristy in 1984. At that time all of what I mentioned was taught in the U.S. high schools along with other bits and pieces of nonsense and inaccuracy. So I know EXACTLY what I had to deal with and I have the paperwork to prove it, so what you say is plain BS. You may have studied someplace where these were corrected but it does not mean that they were not taught as you say.

So you're referencing what YOU were taught 22 years go at a specific university and applying it to what we learn now and how we think now ...

Way to go ....

I do not give a rat's ass about what the rest of the world thinks aboput the Greeks. Jealousy always leaves an unpleasant bitter taste. We had language, literature, culture and society when everyone else was still a hunter-gatherer species and lived in caves (except the Chinese). And they never forgave us for that. Your CPA was possible because of our discoveries. Your language was possible because of us. Democracy was possible because of us. Fredom of speech was made possible because of us. You don't like it? DEAL WITH IT!

Yes we're all bitter and jealous about what Greece has accomplished thousands of years ago .... All that greatness and what's come of it in the past 1000-2000 years? People are really stressed out about it nowadays ....

Perhaps you need to re-read my previous comments a little more carefully. Maybe this time you will understand that I am not going off into a tangent or plucking random nonsense out. Maybe this time you may want to use your brain to think a bit deeper than the surface you got stuck at. I am not superior ro anyone. If you don't understand what I wrote, I would be happy to explain.

No need, You're still self-absorbed ....

[Thryleon]

Your last response made me realize that you have not understood a single word I said. Probably because you never took the time to really read my comments because for you I am self-absorbed (as if such an issue makes all comments instantly wrong... and you call me whatever...).

First of all congratulations are in order. Portugal won the European Championship and that is worthy of applause and acknowledgement. I may not like the football they played but that does not negate the fact that they won. So! Well done Portugal!

So you're referencing what YOU were taught 22 years go at a specific university and applying it to what we learn now and how we think now ...

Way to go ....

I would like to think that "22 years ago" is a typo... Otherwise I would start fearing for your accounting practice... However this is besides the point. I never wrote that I was taught these things. I wrote that I made a lot of speeches and presentations TRYING TO CORRECT inaccuracies. So did the other 13 Greeks that were studying with me at the same university and the other 1.198 Greeks that were studying in other U.S. Universities and colleges in the same period. So did another 5.893 Greeks who studied at various U.S. Universities and colleges between 1981 and 1986.

Yes we're all bitter and jealous about what Greece has accomplished thousands of years ago .... All that greatness and what's come of it in the past 1000-2000 years? People are really stressed out about it nowadays ....

Nice to make comments when you have never been conquered for 400 years by a Muslim nation, you have never fought in 2 World Wars (I would be interested to hear an opinion from a Portueguese on whether Salazar was secretely supporting Germany as it is rumoured, and the lost troops in Angola in WWI are not counted as serious casualities), never fought in 2 Balkan Wars and your country was never destroyed at 178% of resources by the German-Italian-Bulgarian occupation. As for being a lazy nation, you may want to take a look at OECD's reports which puts us as the 4th hardest working nation in the world: https://data.oecd.org/emp/hours-worked.htm

BTW we did create and maintained an Empire for 1.119 years since you are wondering about the last 2000 years....

No need, You're still self-absorbed ....

As I said. I may be the worst egotistical bastard that you will ever come across. It does not automatically make me wrong or you right. We have a disagreement. You have arguements, I have arguements. Some of your arguements are correct some others are not. The same stands true for my arguements. Our discussion is not a matter to resolve some major issue. It's just a matter of different opinions.

[SlickRick1382]

Your last response made me realize that you have not understood a single word I said. Probably because you never took the time to really read my comments because for you I am self-absorbed (as if such an issue makes all comments instantly wrong... and you call me whatever...).

Guilty... I won't dispute that ... I glossed over your comments being that I was less than thrilled with them and I don't have the energy nor the care to really keep arguing. Waste of both our times ...

First of all congratulations are in order. Portugal won the European Championship and that is worthy of applause and acknowledgement. I may not like the football they played but that does not negate the fact that they won. So! Well done Portugal!

Appreciated ... We can be friends now ...

Maybe come World Cup in 2018 we can give you a better display as we're in between generations and our younger players will have a few more years under their belt ...

I would like to think that "22 years ago" is a typo... Otherwise I would start fearing for your accounting practice...

Obviously it's 32 years, a typo, I was in a rush and was just giving you small responses to a few things you said without going into detail.

Even still math is not the main composite of an accounting practice. It's law ....

However this is besides the point. I never wrote that I was taught these things. I wrote that I made a lot of speeches and presentations TRYING TO CORRECT inaccuracies. So did the other 13 Greeks that were studying with me at the same university and the other 1.198 Greeks that were studying in other U.S. Universities and colleges in the same period. So did another 5.893 Greeks who studied at various U.S. Universities and colleges between 1981 and 1986.

You made references to what was taught and having the paperwork to prove it. It almost alludes to what you were also taught. That's how I chose to interpret it since it wasn't clear.

With that said your post above is clear. I was never taught this when I was in high school or even at my university. Even still it's not surprising at all that misrepresentations were made or things were taught improperly ... I'm sure Greek history wasn't the only misrepresentation ... I'm glad you fought to fix what you believe in ...

As for being a lazy nation, you may want to take a look at OECD's reports which puts us as the 4th hardest working nation in the world: https://data.oecd.org/emp/hours-worked.htm

No disrespect but that chart is just a stating Greeks have longer work hours on average than other European nations. That doesn't mean one of the most hardworking. Those numbers are skewed. Other nations, like Germany, have more part-time workers which bring down the national average. They also have more holidays, sick leave, maternity leave, etc.

Also Greece has a much larger agricultural sector (longer hours - just like Portugal and Spain) and shops stay open later which creates that discrepancy ....

The perception across the board in Europe is of the contrary ...

I'm sure that the perception may be based on inaccuracies but what I stated was that Greece was VIEWED as the least hardworking. Which they are (Viewed).

Doesn't mean it holds true and I honestly wouldn't know since I don't have that perception personally of anyone in Europe since I consider Europe in general a more hard working population than many other areas....

As I said. I may be the worst egotistical bastard that you will ever come across. It does not automatically make me wrong or you right. We have a disagreement. You have arguements, I have arguements. Some of your arguements are correct some others are not. The same stands true for my arguements. Our discussion is not a matter to resolve some major issue. It's just a matter of different opinions.

Agreed... I'm sure I'm wrong on some issues just as you are. I can deal with someone being nationalistic and proud of where they came from. That's not wrong. I'm proud of my heritage hence why I defended them so vigorously.

Only issue is that you came across more than nationalistic, a bit too extreme, in my opinion, but that's just how I felt. To each his or her own.

[Thryleon]

No disrespect but that chart is just a stating Greeks have longer work hours on average than other European nations. That doesn't mean one of the most hardworking. Those numbers are skewed. Other nations, like Germany, have more part-time workers which bring down the national average. They also have more holidays, sick leave, maternity leave, etc.

Also Greece has a much larger agricultural sector (longer hours - just like Portugal and Spain) and shops stay open later which creates that discrepancy ....

The perception across the board in Europe is of the contrary ...

I'm sure that the perception may be based on inaccuracies but what I stated was that Greece was VIEWED as the least hardworking. Which they are (Viewed).

Doesn't mean it holds true and I honestly wouldn't know since I don't have that perception personally of anyone in Europe since I consider Europe in general a more hard working population than many other areas....

You are correct as to the skeweing of the results of the chart but for slghtly different reasons. The longer hours are indeed a fact but it is not due to the agricultural sector. It is due to the tourism sector. From April till October the shops in the islands stay open until well after midnight mostly to serve the tourists. It is also a part of our culture to stay awake until late and the shops need to stay open to cover our needs. It is a usual fact to go out looking for a bottle of beer or a pack of cigarettes at 1 or 2 o' clock in the morning. And this is regardless of the area or the sector. Not to forget of course our culutral imperative of bouzoukia (entertainment shops that stay open all night)...

The perception of laziness is mostly due to what we produce and not to how much we work. Germans, Americans and others work less hours to produce the same outcome. This is a matter mostly of technological infrastructure. We are way behind in using computers, networks and back office apps. Not to mention that a great percentage of the population refuses to use computers describing them as "creations of the devil". There is a number of small shops that will close when the mandatory charge of ************ will come to effect refusing to install POSs.

Counting in issues like the high taxation (29%), intolerable social security contributions (45,06% in addition to the regular salaries), continuous strikes and demonstrations etc.. you have the result of producing 60 where you should be producing 100.

Maybe come World Cup in 2018 we can give you a better display as we're in between generations and our younger players will have a few more years under their belt ...

Not with Fernando Santos as coach. He is a realist and he cares only for the result. We had him for 10 years here. We did not like his football but his results were astonishing.

[chidondollars]

Can someone tell me another sbr thread more educational than this?Not any of JJ Gold thread telling Tony to call him that he will be drunk by 18:00Gmt-4

[Thryleon]

I think that both SlickRick1382 and I are providing you with first class education!

[SlickRick1382]

I think that both SlickRick1382 and I are providing you with first class education!

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink ...

Some people will never evolve ...

[wl0000]

Soo annoyed too