[muldoon]

News just reported that Officer Darren Wilson has Orbital Blowout fracture to his eye socket.

Local St. Louis sources said Wilson suffered an “orbital blowout fracture to the eye socket.” This comes from a source within the Prosecuting Attorney’s office and confirmed by the St. Louis County Police.

Original "news" outlet was Gateway Pundit.

Orbital Blowout Injury

The most common symptoms are bruising, tenderness and swelling around the eye; redness of the eye; double vision, ordiplopia (seeing two images at the same time); numbness of the cheek, nose or teeth; nose bleeds (epistaxis)

The cop was walking around the body (which doesn't prove anyway) and no ambulance was called (again - not definitive proof).

But still. Pretty easy to mention this obvious injury in the hours/days after.

A little early to treat this as "fact".

The incident yesterday where the mental dude died by asking the cops to shoot him - that incident report has already been released.

[itchypickle]

Original "news" outlet was Gateway Pundit.

Orbital Blowout Injury


The cop was walking around the body and no ambulance was called.

A little early to treat this as "fact"

Yea but Google images of Orbital blowout images....clearly would indicate a straight jack to the face from Brown who by all accounts so far never touched him...provides clear reason for the escalation.

And ambulances aren't needed when there is clearly a hole in the head and guy is dead....actually only contaminates crime scene to have a bunch of paramedics walking around as well as disturbing the body.

Basically there is a ton of moving parts here and clearly not as cut and dry as we were originally led to believe. Lets just let it all play out. Just like in Trayvon we were told he was skipping along and was on the ground screaming for help and executed...turned out not to be the case just as here a 6'3'' 240+ man isn't exactly the kid portrayed originally and wasn't shot in the back nor walked up on stood over and unloaded into as originally claimed. Dr Baden even made a point missed by most reporting since...the abrasions to the face of Brown from the pavement indicative of him falling and scraping along as the momentum carried him...if he was sitting on his knees saying dont shoot and was shot in the head that way he wasn't going to fly forward a few feet but if he was running toward the cop and cop fired..body goes forward and hits the ground sliding on the cheek.

[muldoon]

Yea but Google images of Orbital blowout images....clearly would indicate a straight jack to the face from Brown who by all accounts so far never touched him...provides clear reason for the escalation.

And ambulances aren't needed when there is clearly a hole in the head and guy is dead...

I'm talking about an ambulance for a guy who just had an orbital blowout.

Dead guy after altercation and the cop seeing double, blurred vision, poor balance...his own blood leaking out.

Like I said, maybe he's a solid specimen and didn't notice (impossible for anyone who has ever suffered it - but for the sake of argument)

Regardless. The originator of the story (Jim Hoft - Gateway Pundit), a guy who happily links to white supremacist websites (not SBR, other ones)

Funny how you guys want to wait for the whole story to come out, trash supposed witnesses that don't fit your narrative, but will rely on this guy and discuss it as fact.

[magyarsvensk]

you're asking why would they? are you completely ignorant on the subject and history? ever heard of Marcus Garvey? the purpose is two fold - first, to reconvene the African diaspora throughout the world (not just Africans living in America) and, second, to socially and economically redeem the African continent (including the exit of any remaining colonial European powers from Africa). this would be akin to the Jewish diaspora and repatriation movement to Israel (which has been quite successful on the whole), but on a much larger scale of course.

the issue really comes down to funding at this point and the obligation/role of western governments. historically, many western governments acknowledged their duty to help facilitate the repatriation desired by Africans in the mid-to-late 19th century. hence the creation of Liberia and temporary colonization of other WAFR countries. these efforts will surely be renewed again some day as Pan-African Nationalism continues to grow and reaches critical mass. if you were Black, you'd want to be afforded that option.

Yeah, Israel has always been regarded as a huge success. No problems there since they first established it. Rainbows and kittens.

Liberia.....what was it like a decade long bloody civil war?

But then you ignored the most important factor: that black Americans have been here as long or longer than your ancestors and that they are on average half white genetically. If that doesn't make a difference to you, maybe you should set up shop in Liberia. According to you, it's a wonderful place, right?

[tony_come]

At least it won't hit anyone on the fly. Maybe bounce off the ground harmlessly.

Maybe the blacks can chase Johnny manziel on the street. Run Johnny run!

[Kermit]

Original "news" outlet was Gateway Pundit.

Orbital Blowout Injury


The cop was walking around the body (which doesn't prove anyway) and no ambulance was called (again - not definitive proof).

But still. Pretty easy to mention this obvious injury in the hours/days after.

A little early to treat this as "fact".

The incident yesterday where the mental dude died by asking the cops to shoot him - that incident report has already been released.

Well it is also being reported on all of the main news sites now too... A broken orbital isn't a life threatening injury that needs attention right away... But it does show that a blow was delivered to that area to create it... Fighters get fractured orbitals and continue to fight with them... Many times they don't even realize that they had them...

http://nypost.com/2014/08/19/cop-inv...socket-report/

[muldoon]

Well it is also being reported on all of the main news sites now too...

Yes, and all of them cite Gateway Pundit (doesn't mean it's not going to prove positive, but having an echo chamber doesn't make the original anonymous report any more legit)

From the post

The black teen killed by a white cop in Ferguson, Mo., viciously attacked the officer as he sat in his patrol car, delivering a bone-crunching punch that shattered the cop’s eye socket, a report claimed Tuesday.
Officer Darren Wilson suffered an “orbital blowout fracture to the eye socket,” Gateway Pundit reported, citing sources in the St. Louis County Police Department and the DA’s office.

[Kermit]

Yes, and all of them cite Gateway Pundit (doesn't mean it's not going to prove positive, but having an echo chamber doesn't make the original anonymous report any more legit)

From the post

I would imagine that the information was verified though seeing as how it took them almost 24 hours to post up the information that was originally posted from Gateway Pundit. They would feel very silly posting this information if it wasn't true. Can't see these legit news outlets posting critical information on just a "hunch"

[muldoon]

I would imagine that the information was verified though seeing as how it took them almost 24 hours to post up the information that was originally posted from Gateway Pundit. They would feel very silly posting this information if it wasn't true. Can't see these legit news outlets posting critical information on just a "hunch"

They don't mention they verified or second sourced it.

Easy to cite one (very questionable) source. Then, if it proves false, fall back on "the original source now says..."

Hoft (gateway) originally had an xray of a orbital blowout and then removed it after it was pointed out that the image he was using was from a medical site and the Xray was from an Iowa hospital (he blurred out the Iowa part of the Xray at the bottom originally). The original article made it seem like this was the actual xray from the cop.

My point isn't whether it's real or legit, my point is that it's one site (a site which embraces racist posts, and links to sites run by white supremacists), citing an anonymous source, which runs like a brush fire through the forums and the right wing echo chamber and gets cited as fact. YET, when people who actually claim to have witnessed the incident are quoted, their motives are immediately called into question by you guys.

[itchypickle]

I'm talking about an ambulance for a guy who just had an orbital blowout.

Dead guy after altercation and the cop seeing double, blurred vision, poor balance...his own blood leaking out.

Like I said, maybe he's a solid specimen and didn't notice (impossible for anyone who has ever suffered it - but for the sake of argument)

Regardless. The originator of the story (Jim Hoft - Gateway Pundit), a guy who happily links to white supremacist websites (not SBR, other ones)

Funny how you guys want to wait for the whole story to come out, trash supposed witnesses that don't fit your narrative, but will rely on this guy and discuss it as fact.

nobody knows the facts yet...we haven't heard the police version yet and so far the eyewitness parts have been shady after other witnesses plus the autopsy. I just think why would they all risk their careers withholding evidence if the cop did 'execute him like an animal'. Leads to believe they are holding the facts that clear him more than hang him. Letting the chatter calm down and then come forth once its all been done by the book. We'll see.

[Kermit]

They don't mention they verified or second sourced it.

Easy to cite one (very questionable) source. Then, if it proves false, fall back on "the original source now says..."

Hoft (gateway) originally had an xray of a orbital blowout and then removed it after it was pointed out that the image he was using was from a medical site and the Xray was from an Iowa hospital (he blurred out the Iowa part of the Xray at the bottom originally). The original article made it seem like this was the actual xray from the cop.

My point isn't whether it's real or legit, my point is that it's one site (a site which embraces racist posts, and links to sites run by white supremacists), citing an anonymous source, which runs like a brush fire through the forums and the right wing echo chamber and gets cited as fact. YET, when people who actually claim to have witnessed the incident are quoted, their motives are immediately called into question by you guys.

Well, the fact that it was reported Waaaay back when this case first hit the web that the cop was punched, this new information seemed post worthy. All I knew is that this source was based somewhere from the area where this had taken place. No one really discredited the witnesses(mainly Dorian Johnson) until the autopsy report came out that suggested that he my not be telling the whole story.

[itchypickle]

Just read another link about the facial injuries, sources close to the Assistant Chief who drove the cop to the ER right after says he was beaten severely and the fracture to the eye socket and added another interesting visual to the 'hands up dont shoot' trend....other witnesses say Brown had his hands up 'to surrender' but according to the police now yes he had hands up but it was in the context of raising them as most guys do talking trash ('what you gone shoot me, shoot me mother fukker' what what' and then) and then ran toward him and the shots happened....does make sense. From afar without hearing the words all they see is hands in air but it could easily be as described...not surrender but the normal beefin' pose

[muldoon]

nobody knows the facts yet....

Kind of my original point dude. People willing to believe witnesses (some call them legit...others shady)...people willing to believe Jim Hoft (shady to some...legit to others).

People taking anonymous sources and shady witnesses as fact to justify their version.

No reason they couldn't have mentioned the cops injury from early on. Should have been documented witness statements and visual evidence (might exist - but not releasing).

The fact that they didn't release it, but were willing to post the video of this dude acting like a punk/thug in the store earlier - speaks volumes (to me) as to how they wanted to frame this.

[Kermit]

Kind of my original point dude. People willing to believe witnesses (some call them legit...others shady)...people willing to believe Jim Hoft (shady to some...legit to others).

People taking anonymous sources and shady witnesses as fact to justify their version.

No reason they couldn't have mentioned the cops injury from early on. Should have been documented witness statements and visual evidence (might exist - but not releasing).

The fact that they didn't release it, but were willing to post the video of this dude acting like a punk/thug in the store earlier - speaks volumes (to me) as to how they wanted to frame this.

They mentioned the cop's injury from day 1. They said he was treated at the hospital for facial swelling. They didn't go into the severity or details, but it was mentioned. Everyone was so wound up, that I don't think that it would have mattered.

I am sure they have taken pictures of his face right after the incident occurred, if they didn't, they they really are stupid.

As far as the way that they are releasing evidence to the public, I don't know. I suppose that they are releasing evidence as it is being verified. I was watching one of the news stations last night and they said that all of the evidence might not be known until October.

[muldoon]

but according to the police now yes he had hands up but it was in the context of raising them as most guys do talking trash ('what you gone shoot me, shoot me mother fukker' what what' and then)

That sounds plausible.

I also don't buy into the narrative of him being a nice little kid etc (he looks like he could have been the stunt double for The Blind Side Michael Oher).

[Deuce]

Why are these hashtag activists saying stealing, pushing and shoving store clerks is what kids do??? I never have done that not anyone I know. Fukkin jerk offs validating animistic behavior.

[existential]

Yeah, Israel has always been regarded as a huge success. No problems there since they first established it. Rainbows and kittens.

Liberia.....what was it like a decade long bloody civil war?

But then you ignored the most important factor: that black Americans have been here as long or longer than your ancestors and that they are on average half white genetically. If that doesn't make a difference to you, maybe you should set up shop in Liberia. According to you, it's a wonderful place, right?

don't think you understand what i'm saying or you're just avoiding the issue and throwing around straw man arguments. point is, the US and other Western governments have the obligation to pay for the repatriation of Blacks should they want to return. and what you're unaware of is that MANY do and there are popular movements LEAD by Blacks to achieve this goal. you either don't understand Pan-African Nationalism history or are just ignoring it. the only thing i can assume from your comments is that you don't support the idea that the US and other Western governments should provide the financial support to those who desire repatriation? and what i'm simply saying is don't be surprised over the next 50 years for this movement to gain serious traction where these governments implement it. not sure why such an idea would upset you?

Israel is merely an example of where this has worked to the extent of convening a majority of its own diaspora. the fact that neighboring countries have issues with Israel is irrelevant to the core principles of repatriation. so to leap with a straw man about Liberia is just silly. and with regards to Africa, neighboring violence is not an issue when American or other Western Blacks return to Africa. it's proven just the opposite where Nationalism is finally building. Ghana is a much better modern example of where you can read and understand this issue.

[itchypickle]

That sounds plausible.

I also don't buy into the narrative of him being a nice little kid etc (he looks like he could have been the stunt double for The Blind Side Michael Oher).

Yea and compared to the scrony po-po I imagine he was terrified I said previously I could see one of the bald head muscled out night shift cops going overboard, like the California asshole that was pummeling the lady on the interstate last month but trying to look at everything as a whole in this case....just leaning more toward the version of the cop acting in self defense. Something that came to mind as well thinking about it, town that small great chance either Dorian or Brown knew of this officer and how his demeanor is, possible why they may have chose to be smart asses if thats the case. I say that because growing up around smaller PDs and sheriff's depts they all have a few of those that guys on the street 'test' when they get hired and another reason they do the slow days shifts...they are more or less the quiet ones and such. Looks as thought its gonna be a month or so before we all get the juicy details and thats right in middle of football so will probly miss it.

[magyarsvensk]

don't think you understand what i'm saying or you're just avoiding the issue and throwing around straw man arguments. point is, the US and other Western governments have the obligation to pay for the repatriation of Blacks should they want to return. and what you're unaware of is that MANY do and there are popular movements LEAD by Blacks to achieve this goal. you either don't understand Pan-African Nationalism history or are just ignoring it. the only thing i can assume from your comments is that you don't support the idea that the US and other Western governments should provide the financial support to those who desire repatriation? and what i'm simply saying is don't be surprised over the next 50 years for this movement to gain serious traction where these governments implement it. not sure why such an idea would upset you?

Israel is merely an example of where this has worked to the extent of convening a majority of its own diaspora. the fact that neighboring countries have issues with Israel is irrelevant to the core principles of repatriation. so to leap with a straw man about Liberia is just silly. and with regards to Africa, neighboring violence is not an issue when American or other Western Blacks return to Africa. it's proven just the opposite where Nationalism is finally building. Ghana is a much better modern example of where you can read and understand this issue.

Yet another person making wishful claims about my emotional state rather than addressing the topic because you are losing an argument. FYI, in the past, now and for the indefinite future, I don't get upset about stuff like this. Definitely not because of something some poorly endowed joker on the Internet says anonymously on a message board. I am a passionate advocate for worthy causes. It beats being a selfish POS. Try it some time maybe.

Repatriation has nothing to do with "returning to Africa". Black Americans do not come from Africa/Europe any more than white Americans come from Europe. They are all Americans and all have ethnicities and ancestries that can be traced back to several different nations and likely more than one continent. Furthermore, the United States is the only country they have ever known and their only home.

By the way, when you use the term "straw man", it isn't fooling anyone. "Straw man" may as well mean "something the person I am arguing with said that I have no answer for."

[JohnGalt2341]

That sounds plausible.

I also don't buy into the narrative of him being a nice little kid etc (he looks like he could have been the stunt double for The Blind Side Michael Oher).

That's one of the first things I thought of when I started following this story. And it seems like the media was trying to portray him as having the same demeanor as the kid from the Blind Side.
Does anyone still believe that he was a "gentle giant"? I haven't watched this on TV in a few days. Is the media still portraying him this way?

[Boner_18]

This thing is still going on?

[brainfreeze]

I was probably a lot worse then him at 18, smart enough to obey cops orders when in a stronghold though. I also probably have a bigger heart then a lot of you today. Quick story, there was a guy I just recently heard about who saved a women and her grand daughter from a burning car that smashed in to a 18-wheeler on I-10 recently, true hero. At 18 years old, I was out for self could careless about anyone else's life, today at 30 I do care about others because my perception on life has matured. If a kid puts himself in dangerous situations and dies or kills, choices. I guess we will know all of the true facts when it all comes out.

[existential]

Yet another person making wishful claims about my emotional state rather than addressing the topic because you are losing an argument. FYI, in the past, now and for the indefinite future, I don't get upset about stuff like this. Definitely not because of something some poorly endowed joker on the Internet says anonymously on a message board. I am a passionate advocate for worthy causes. It beats being a selfish POS. Try it some time maybe.

Repatriation has nothing to do with "returning to Africa". Black Americans do not come from Africa/Europe any more than white Americans come from Europe. They are all Americans and all have ethnicities and ancestries that can be traced back to several different nations and likely more than one continent. Furthermore, the United States is the only country they have ever known and their only home.

By the way, when you use the term "straw man", it isn't fooling anyone. "Straw man" may as well mean "something the person I am arguing with said that I have no answer for."

actually, the classic sign that someone is losing an argument is when they stoop to personal insults out of desperation which is what you've done. nowhere did i insult or call you names, so why go there? are you not capable of regular discourse without getting emotional? you should've just admitted that you're naive about a subject and were wrong to make assumptions. instead of being selfish by trying to deny the right to assisted repatriation, why don't you begin reading about the various movements such as the Rastarfai to become better educated. you'll come across as far more mature and emotionally stable once you have a better understanding of the top at hand. GL kid.

[Fidel_CashFlow]

there are too many words in this thread, so I havent read back. Hope this has not been posted yet.

[GunShard]

there are too many words in this thread, so I havent read back. Hope this has not been posted yet.

I just saw this on another website.

There should be a new rule for the police.
If the suspect is not wielding a firearm, shoot the suspect in the leg or use a taser.
If the suspect is wielding a firearm, then the officer can legally shoot the suspect in the chest or head.

[Kermit]

there are too many words in this thread, so I havent read back. Hope this has not been posted yet.

Seen that earlier today. Sad to watch. WTF was wrong with that guy? Why did he want to die? It was like suicide by Police.

[Kermit]

You know what bothers me most about that video(and many videos like that) is that the person recording is laughing and almost egging the person on to act crazy.

[Fidel_CashFlow]

yeah, im not saying I agree or disagree with it, just wanted to post it.

hard to watch either way though. Cops smoke white folks like that all the time as well,

but it does not cause a stir in the media like it does when its the other way around

These are uncomfortable times we are living in , best thing we can do is be as kind as you can to your fellow peers

Hard pill to swallow if you have kids though, knowing what kind of world they have to grow up in

[The Kraken]

I hate it when a good argument degrades into who is winning and why. Once it reaches this point the discussion is usually over because every subsequent post is usually refuting the previous, which had nothing to do with the original topic. It's a shame when it's a solid discussion

Both of you two are making great points and we're all benefiting from reading your thoughts

Leave all the other BS on the sidelines and get after it. Just quit keeping score

[magyarsvensk]

actually, the classic sign that someone is losing an argument is when they stoop to personal insults out of desperation which is what you've done. nowhere did i insult or call you names, so why go there? are you not capable of regular discourse without getting emotional? you should've just admitted that you're naive about a subject and were wrong to make assumptions. instead of being selfish by trying to deny the right to assisted repatriation, why don't you begin reading about the various movements such as the Rastarfai to become better educated. you'll come across as far more mature and emotionally stable once you have a better understanding of the top at hand. GL kid.

Ok, so you are still clinging to the idea that I am getting emotional about some racist brainless hack on an Internet message board. Keep thinking that dude. I can't help you if you can't help yourself.

I know several Rastas personally and surely know more about their actual mindset than you ever will. You are out of your league here. Right to repatriation? I bet the slave owners thought they were doing the actual Africans a favor too when they stole them from their home and brought them to this country. Now you are proposing taking them from their homes and sending them to a foreign land. Your idea is crap. Sorry.

[Kermit]

What bothers me most about that video is that the man in it obviously was mentally unstable and I think that the man recording him knew that, but didn't think that it would turn out the way that it did(maybe he didn't know that he had a knife on him)

And also it didn't take the police very long to gun him down without at least trying to make an effort to calm the situation first.

Just sad all around.

[retard]

https://soundcloud.com/bigmike-jr-brown

[The Inevitable]

there are too many words in this thread, so I havent read back. Hope this has not been posted yet.

All these incidents are leading up to gun control. Pretty soon all Americans are going to welcome gun laws with open arms.

[William Walters]

https://soundcloud.com/bigmike-jr-brown

[NrmlCurvSurfr]

All these incidents are leading up to gun control. Pretty soon all Americans are going to welcome gun laws with open arms.

Speak for yourself pal. I live in an area with more guns than you could imagine...we just don't act like savages. I consider conseal carry important too, people commit less crimes around people that are armed.