[bosigga]

Simple question then, lets agree to disagree over who started it...which side has accepted terms for a stop to the fighting TWICE now and which side has not?

You mean the ceasefire Egypt and Israel concocted that Hamas found out about through the media?
Which side has offered a ceasefire from day one under conditions that would improve the lives of it's people?

The main condition being ending the siege and blockade of Gaza. Allow these people to have everyday lives and provide for their families. If you continue isolating them and crippling their economy they have nothing to lose and will turn more radical. If you cannot see this you do not understand how dire life in Gaza really is. A man will not think about launching rockets when he's trying to start up a business or get to work and put food on the table. Blockade on every side, can't even fish more than a few km out into the sea. Can't export anything, imports are minimal. Water is not clean, sewage messed up thanks to last Israeli bombardment. More than 80% below poverty line. All in Gaza want an end to the war, but not if it means keeping Gaza an open air prison.

[itchypickle]

You mean the ceasefire Egypt and Israel concocted that Hamas found out about through the media?
Which side has offered a ceasefire from day one under conditions that would improve the lives of it's people?

The main condition being ending the siege and blockade of Gaza. Allow these people to have everyday lives and provide for their families. If you continue isolating them and crippling their economy they have nothing to lose and will turn more radical. If you cannot see this you do not understand how dire life in Gaza really is. A man will not think about launching rockets when he's trying to start up a business or get to work and put food on the table. Blockade on every side, can't even fish more than a few km out into the sea. Can't export anything, imports are minimal. Water is not clean, sewage messed up thanks to last Israeli bombardment. More than 80% below poverty line. All in Gaza want an end to the war, but not if it means keeping Gaza an open air prison.

SO why aren't the Hamas rockets aimed at the southern blockade from Egypt then as well? Same old excuses dating back to 2005 when Israel forced its own citizens out of there at gunpoint, took out the settlements and even left behind infrastructure and businesses that the Gazans instead of taking over and running for commerce and food they instead destroyed them and bounced on top for the cameras. Blockades are open for aid and food, workers as well...but when they keep finding weapons, the ships coming in loaded with rockets and the concrete supplies used not to build homes, schools and hospitals but terror tunnels they have to monitor it.

[bosigga]

SO why aren't the Hamas rockets aimed at the southern blockade from Egypt then as well? Same old excuses dating back to 2005 when Israel forced its own citizens out of there at gunpoint, took out the settlements and even left behind infrastructure and businesses that the Gazans instead of taking over and running for commerce and food they instead destroyed them and bounced on top for the cameras. Blockades are open for aid and food, workers as well...but when they keep finding weapons, the ships coming in loaded with rockets and the concrete supplies used not to build homes, schools and hospitals but terror tunnels they have to monitor it.

Because Egypt is not destroying their families and houses with fighter jets and claiming self defense! You guys are unbelievable

[smoke a bowl]

My thoughts are 95+% of this garbage wouldn't be happening if it weren't for religion.

[itchypickle]

Because Egypt is not destroying their families and houses with fighter jets and claiming self defense! You guys are unbelievable

I meant before the current fighting dimwit. Get your head out of the sand for a second.

What were the people and the elected govt of Gaza doing before June? You can't just ignore years of actions and then jump once the headlines grab it. Israel has allowed them into their hospitals and cities for years. DO you think the opposite would happen? What an idiot. What is the stated GOAL of Hamas and Palestinian Jihad? Answer me that?

[bosigga]

I meant before the current fighting dimwit. Get your head out of the sand for a second.


What were the people and the elected govt of Gaza doing before June? You can't just ignore years of actions and then jump once the headlines grab it. Israel has allowed them into their hospitals and cities for years. DO you think the opposite would happen? What an idiot. What is the stated GOAL of Hamas and Palestinian Jihad? Answer me that?

Thats what I've been saying this whole time! You can't ignore 50 years of occupation and oppression and then say how dare these people resist us and desire freedom. "we are just defending ourselves"!!


Yes Israel has been doing that for a very long time, way before this "current fighting" genius. And they are illegally occupying Gaza and continue pushing settlements in the West Bank. Netanyahu has no interest in a two state solution at all. Hamas are not saints, but right now they are speaking for their people. What part of their ceasefire conditions is unreasonable?
If Israel really wanted to crush Hamas they are failing, this collective punishment of innocent civilians can only make Hamas stronger. How far has Abbas gone with negotiations for a two state solution? That has worked so well huh? Why do you eat up everything the Israelis and media feed you?

And what dumbass from Israel would want to go to a hospital in Gaza where they are considered a legit military target as soon as they cross the border??

[zizoudane10]

Thats what I've been saying this whole time! You can't ignore 50 years of occupation and oppression and then say how dare these people resist us and desire freedom. "we are just defending ourselves"!!


Yes Israel has been doing that for a very long time, way before this "current fighting" genius. And they are illegally occupying Gaza and continue pushing settlements in the West Bank. Netanyahu has no interest in a two state solution at all. Hamas are not saints, but right now they are speaking for their people. What part of their ceasefire conditions is unreasonable?
If Israel really wanted to crush Hamas they are failing, this collective punishment of innocent civilians can only make Hamas stronger. How far has Abbas gone with negotiations for a two state solution? That has worked so well huh? Why do you eat up everything the Israelis and media feed you?

And what dumbass from Israel would want to go to a hospital in Gaza where they are considered a legit military target as soon as they cross the border??

That is a 100% true.
In "good times" Hamas has no support whatsoever from the normal civilian population. And you can measure that by numbers of Hamas fighters in the last 20+ years. As soon as one Hamas nut fires a rocket, Israel punishes all and kills innocent people "by mistake". And as soon as that happens it is the most normal thing in the world that people back the guys that fight the guys that killed one of your family. My sister was killed by Israel rocket? I'll join Hamas and fight them. And not: I have work, I can go wherever I want in this state without having to ask for permission (which is never given anyway), I have food, I have peace? Well, it's a great idea to ruin that and join Hamas and fight Israel. Wrong, damn fukkin wrong.
I am not sympathizing with anyone here, but don't get it all twisted when it comes to action and reaction.

[itchypickle]

Thats what I've been saying this whole time! You can't ignore 50 years of occupation and oppression and then say how dare these people resist us and desire freedom. "we are just defending ourselves"!!


Yes Israel has been doing that for a very long time, way before this "current fighting" genius. And they are illegally occupying Gaza and continue pushing settlements in the West Bank. Netanyahu has no interest in a two state solution at all. Hamas are not saints, but right now they are speaking for their people. What part of their ceasefire conditions is unreasonable?
If Israel really wanted to crush Hamas they are failing, this collective punishment of innocent civilians can only make Hamas stronger. How far has Abbas gone with negotiations for a two state solution? That has worked so well huh? Why do you eat up everything the Israelis and media feed you?

And what dumbass from Israel would want to go to a hospital in Gaza where they are considered a legit military target as soon as they cross the border??

You need to go back and read your history...look who all signed off on the status in the 40's....arab nations then invaded from 3 sides and lost...then called for more concessions after they lost their bid to destroy the state...again keep in mind Israel could flip that and wipe the area clean from the air and sea if they choose but they do not wish that. Fast forward to earlier in the past 15 years...Israel pulled out of both the west bank area and Gaza and what happened between hamas and the PLO???? They fought among each other....face it Bossiga, those people know nothing but fighting tribally from birth...will never be happy. Seriously your mindset is just jaded. Again....Israel has always pulled back in order to appease them and its still not enough. Until they start focusing less on hating Jews and more on building a civil society amongst themselves it is what it is.

[rufflesmuncher]

That is a 100% true.
In "good times" Hamas has no support whatsoever from the normal civilian population. And you can measure that by numbers of Hamas fighters in the last 20+ years. As soon as one Hamas nut fires a rocket, Israel punishes all and kills innocent people "by mistake". And as soon as that happens it is the most normal thing in the world that people back the guys that fight the guys that killed one of your family. My sister was killed by Israel rocket? I'll join Hamas and fight them. And not: I have work, I can go wherever I want in this state without having to ask for permission (which is never given anyway), I have food, I have peace? Well, it's a great idea to ruin that and join Hamas and fight Israel. Wrong, damn fukkin wrong.
I am not sympathizing with anyone here, but don't get it all twisted when it comes to action and reaction.

1500 rockets being launched not 1. I'm done with this thread. Between you and wager, I'm dealing with morons who listen to Hamas lies. So keep your ideology and biased opinion and I'll keep mine. When Gaza is no more because of the terrorists go crying to the rest of the Muslim brotherhood who won't lift a finger to help you.

[zizoudane10]

1500 rockets being launched not 1. I'm done with this thread. Between you and wager, I'm dealing with morons who listen to Hamas lies. So keep your ideology and biased opinion and I'll keep mine. When Gaza is no more because of the terrorists go crying to the rest of the Muslim brotherhood who won't lift a finger to help you.

Hamas lies? While you listen to the lies of a land that killed it's own prime minister because he wanted peace? Oh wait, the official story is convinving.... Yeah alright.....
As I said in my post before: I have zero sympathy for any side here. Yet I am the moron? Righty right, good to know. As far as I am concerned both sides fukk up on a regular basis and both sides have a big fat amount of motherfukking assholes and idiots. But don't be fooled when it comes to the roots of who is the initial oppressor.

[bosigga]

There you go itchypickle, continue to dehumanize them in order to justify this slaughter of civilians and destruction of Gaza. Our tax dollars pay for this madness and government gives them a green light to do everything.

Israel can do no wrong and all Palestinians are the devil. There is no middle ground. Life is good and simple in Tuscaloosa.

Disgusting.

[zizoudane10]

There you go itchypickle, continue to dehumanize them in order to justify this slaughter of civilians and destruction of Gaza. Our tax dollars pay for this madness and government gives them a green light to do everything.

Israel can do no wrong and all Palestinians are the devil. There is no middle ground. Life is good and simple in Tuscaloosa.

Disgusting.

Honestly, try to say anything against the state Israel here in Germany..... They'll immediately cry: ANTISEMITE
It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.....

[itchypickle]

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/aug...ssons-20100808

zizou and bosigga here's an article from 2010 even....same things going on then minus the Israeli entrance back into Gaza as we are seeing today. Like I posted previously, it's stupid to watch the failures of the Gazan people time after time due to Hamas and lack of rule and efforts to make a civil society vs just hate for Israel and then when it blows up to jump in and criticize the current events and forget who is ultimately responsible for their own situation.

I'll wager you any amount you can dream of that if Israel said tomorrow they will stop the shelling, turn off the iron dome defense system, and allow free access to the state and from outside support by sea or borders......within a matter of days Tel Aviv would be flattened by missiles, kidnappings and murders would reign and you'd have palestinians marching through the streets and burning whats left to the ground. THAT is why it is what it is today.

[DwightShrute]

Incredible Footage Shows Israeli Bomb Mid-Flight Before Hitting Gaza Target

IN NEWS, OPINION, POLITICS, VIDEOS, WORLD NEWS / BY SEAN BROWN / ON JULY 25, 2014 AT 12:06 PM /
Israel has stood behind its “knock on roof” policy as a means in which to protect innocent people from harm prior to obliterating a target. How it works is they drop a small projectile on the target prior to the larger one as a warning to get out while you can.
An incredible video released by a Gaza news agency shows this practice at work, and it just happened to capture a bomb in mid-flight before hitting the target.


Israel is under constant criticism for what people say is deliberately targeting civilians in Gaza. However, they take great care in trying to preserve innocent life if at all possible. Complicating the issue is that Hamas intentionally picks areas where targeting them is difficult due to civilian presence.

Because of the Hamas tactics, Israel uses the “knock on roof” policy combined with surveillance and other methods to limit the possibility of civilians being harmed.
A retired IDF brigadier general, Relik Shafir, said that there’s no standard gap between the first and second projectile and that it all depends on how important the target is. He said it could be minutes or hours, but regardless of the timing extreme care is taken to ensure only militants are the ones harmed.
“It’s meant to get people to take us seriously,” says Shafir.

[TheCentaur]

Incredible Footage Shows Israeli Bomb Mid-Flight Before Hitting Gaza Target

IN NEWS, OPINION, POLITICS, VIDEOS, WORLD NEWS / BY SEAN BROWN / ON JULY 25, 2014 AT 12:06 PM /
Israel has stood behind its “knock on roof” policy as a means in which to protect innocent people from harm prior to obliterating a target. How it works is they drop a small projectile on the target prior to the larger one as a warning to get out while you can.
An incredible video released by a Gaza news agency shows this practice at work, and it just happened to capture a bomb in mid-flight before hitting the target.


Israel is under constant criticism for what people say is deliberately targeting civilians in Gaza. However, they take great care in trying to preserve innocent life if at all possible. Complicating the issue is that Hamas intentionally picks areas where targeting them is difficult due to civilian presence.

Because of the Hamas tactics, Israel uses the “knock on roof” policy combined with surveillance and other methods to limit the possibility of civilians being harmed.
A retired IDF brigadier general, Relik Shafir, said that there’s no standard gap between the first and second projectile and that it all depends on how important the target is. He said it could be minutes or hours, but regardless of the timing extreme care is taken to ensure only militants are the ones harmed.
“It’s meant to get people to take us seriously,” says Shafir.

17 seconds? That's not a lot of time

That's like Biteme saying he is going to hit when he raises all in and you've got pocket aces, then when he sucks out says he warned you

[DwightShrute]

17 seconds? That's not a lot of time

That's like Biteme saying he is going to hit when he raises all in and you've got pocket aces, then when he sucks out says he warned you

its not a lot of time for sure but have you ever heard of that before? I haven't/

[itchypickle]

its not a lot of time for sure but have you ever heard of that before? I haven't/

Not only that, the leaflets and texts. Even more precise to avoid civilian deaths, interviewed a guy on MSNBC the other day and Joy Reid asked him "you tell them to leave but where are they supposed to go?" and he told her of the new leaflets that are updated daily....has a map on it coordinated with the UN and is neighborhood by neighborhood. Basically its dropped on 123 Hamas sympathizer lane and has a picture of a map saying " leave your building and proceed to the corner, turn right and go 3 blocks and there is a safe zone" and so far tens of thousands have shown up in these designated areas....some of the homes targeted were shown in videos you can see on the official websites that the on ground soldiers take.....there is a 4 or 5 story building with apartments on top floors but inside on the ground floor lives the hamas soldiers, with the doors to the tunnels...d'bags pop out of the tunnel and run up to the roof saying hello daily to the 'innocents' in the building and fire rockets then run back down and leave through the tunnels...so IDF is destroying the structures. Something that should be thought about when high fiving the terrorists that use your homes for such acts and then get upset when the military shows up.

[DwightShrute]

Not only that, the leaflets and texts. Even more precise to avoid civilian deaths, interviewed a guy on MSNBC the other day and Joy Reid asked him "you tell them to leave but where are they supposed to go?" and he told her of the new leaflets that are updated daily....has a map on it coordinated with the UN and is neighborhood by neighborhood. Basically its dropped on 123 Hamas sympathizer lane and has a picture of a map saying " leave your building and proceed to the corner, turn right and go 3 blocks and there is a safe zone" and so far tens of thousands have shown up in these designated areas....some of the homes targeted were shown in videos you can see on the official websites that the on ground soldiers take.....there is a 4 or 5 story building with apartments on top floors but inside on the ground floor lives the hamas soldiers, with the doors to the tunnels...d'bags pop out of the tunnel and run up to the roof saying hello daily to the 'innocents' in the building and fire rockets then run back down and leave through the tunnels...so IDF is destroying the structures. Something that should be thought about when high fiving the terrorists that use your homes for such acts and then get upset when the military shows up.

wow

[itchypickle]

wow

Jump to the 1:40 mark of the video and watch the magic.

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybens...-host-n1865243

[DwightShrute]

Jump to the 1:40 mark of the video and watch the magic.

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybens...-host-n1865243

disgusting and sad but a great video everyone should watch

[itchypickle]

Well.....they agreed to a ceasefire this morning for humanitarian aid to get in and help...soon as it quitted down guess what...Hams started lobbing rockets into Israel again. Go figure. Isn't it ironic we keep hearing in the same breath "Islam is a religion of peace, death to America, death to Jews, Islam is a religion of peace"

[wagerjunkie]

17 seconds? That's not a lot of time

That's like Biteme saying he is going to hit when he raises all in and you've got pocket aces, then when he sucks out says he warned you

17 seconds AND there's a fkng MILITARY WALL all around. THERE IS NOWHERE TO EVACUATE too. biggest bullshit ever. that's like saying here we are going to bomb you...run around in circles and try to stay alive.

[wagerjunkie]

17 fkn seconds....imagine if you have a wife and 4 kids and live on the upper floor..that's not even enough time to gather everyone up and get down the steps and out and away from the explosion. fkn joke.

[brooks85]

[QUOTE=wagerjunkie;22310883]17 seconds AND there's a fkng MILITARY WALL all around. THERE IS NOWHERE TO EVACUATE too. biggest bullshit ever. that's like saying here we are going to bomb you...run around in circles and try to stay alive.[/QUOTE]

I'll take that chance any day of the week as opposed to just lying in bed and having a real missile hit without any warning.

Stop being so dumb, you're embarrassing yourself.

[itchypickle]

17 fkn seconds....imagine if you have a wife and 4 kids and live on the upper floor..that's not even enough time to gather everyone up and get down the steps and out and away from the explosion. fkn joke.

You're forgetting the first and other steps of warning before the last one which is the roof top bang. Areas get in most cases 24/48 hrs notice.....same day texts...THEN the rooftop blast and lastly the big one. Maps leading to designated U.N. zones....ALL things Hamas doesn't do before attacking though. Where is your outrage over that?

Yesterday was a perfect example, cease fire accepted and as soon as it was - rockets flew aimlessly toward Tel Aviv from Hamas. Could have all been over with but they keep provoking it. Goes back months, didn't see you in here saying a peep while they were tossing thousands of missiles at Israel and Israel kept saying stop or we'll come in there....they kept on and Israel again restrained and said last chance assholes...Hamas laughed and said bring it...so they brought it and now here you are whining "Israel is invading for no reason they need to stop"

[scumbag]

anybody who cant see that this is a very complicated issue and both sides are responsible, is a fcking moron.

you clowns are probably like this cun.t Hannity and think things are just so black and white.

[ChalkyDog]

I am not sure my opinion on this subject. The information I am getting is clearly slanted and as such I am suspicious.

I don't know. One of the few things out there that are just a complete mess with much to do.

[itchypickle]

I am not sure my opinion on this subject. The information I am getting is clearly slanted and as such I am suspicious.

I don't know. One of the few things out there that are just a complete mess with much to do.

There will always be actors on both sides who hate the other, question is can they just agree to disagree and focus on something other than killing each other. Probably not for awhile because people are going to hear the side they wanna hear on this conflict and that will definitely taint the debate. Hell wait til in game threads start next month over SEC vs Pac 12 and instant replays.....look how serious we take that shitt and then amplify it to the Gaza folks.

[scumbag]

just read about the history of the conflict. start in the 1940's with the jews commiting the first act of terrorism when they blew up a Brit HQ/hotel and killed a bunch of innocents.

what you'll find is a very complicated situation with both sides having a lot of blood on their hands. but us Americans evidently lack the ability to do that and just listen to all of our media tell us how dem damn terrorist be killing innocent people for no good reason.

right wing extremists on both sides make peace a very difficult proposition.

[ChalkyDog]

just read about the history of the conflict. start in the 1940's with the jews commiting the first act of terrorism when they blew up a Brit HQ/hotel and killed a bunch of innocents.

what you'll find is a very complicated situation with both sides having a lot of blood on their hands. but us Americans evidently lack the ability to do that and just listen to all of our media tell us how dem damn terrorist be killing innocent people for no good reason.

right wing extremists on both sides make peace a very difficult proposition.

This history of this conflict is fukked. That part of it can't be fixed. I took an entire course on this conflict back in undergrad ~ 2006ish, and I still have no idea how to unfukk this thing.

Not only do you have the local issues, you have the geo-political proxy war situation that is the fuel to this fire.

It's a mess. Historically and going forward.

However, this current conflict was summarized nicely in this video: (In my opinion, at least)

[existential]

Incredible Footage Shows Israeli Bomb Mid-Flight Before Hitting Gaza Target

IN NEWS, OPINION, POLITICS, VIDEOS, WORLD NEWS / BY SEAN BROWN / ON JULY 25, 2014 AT 12:06 PM /
Israel has stood behind its “knock on roof” policy as a means in which to protect innocent people from harm prior to obliterating a target. How it works is they drop a small projectile on the target prior to the larger one as a warning to get out while you can.
An incredible video released by a Gaza news agency shows this practice at work, and it just happened to capture a bomb in mid-flight before hitting the target.


Israel is under constant criticism for what people say is deliberately targeting civilians in Gaza. However, they take great care in trying to preserve innocent life if at all possible. Complicating the issue is that Hamas intentionally picks areas where targeting them is difficult due to civilian presence.

Because of the Hamas tactics, Israel uses the “knock on roof” policy combined with surveillance and other methods to limit the possibility of civilians being harmed.
A retired IDF brigadier general, Relik Shafir, said that there’s no standard gap between the first and second projectile and that it all depends on how important the target is. He said it could be minutes or hours, but regardless of the timing extreme care is taken to ensure only militants are the ones harmed.
“It’s meant to get people to take us seriously,” says Shafir.

cool video perfect strike

[scumbag]

cool video perfect strike

fcking dumbass

[scumbag]

This history of this conflict is fukked. That part of it can't be fixed. I took an entire course on this conflict back in undergrad ~ 2006ish, and I still have no idea how to unfukk this thing.

Not only do you have the local issues, you have the geo-political proxy war situation that is the fuel to this fire.

It's a mess. Historically and going forward.

However, this current conflict was summarized nicely in this video: (In my opinion, at least)

if youve taken a college level class on the conflict its safe to say that you know more about it than me considering ive only read for a few hours on the internet about it.

a two state solution that gives the Palestinians sovereignty is the only solution that will work. just dont know exacltly what that looks like, or how unrealistic it really is.

[Snowball]

Revelation 2:9: I know thy tribulation and thy poverty, but thou art rich: and thou art blasphemed by them that say they are Jews and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

[rufflesmuncher]

if youve taken a college level class on the conflict its safe to say that you know more about it than me considering ive only read for a few hours on the internet about it.

a two state solution that gives the Palestinians sovereignty is the only solution that will work. just dont know exacltly what that looks like, or how unrealistic it really is.

1948 they were offered that by Israel but the surrounding arab countries told them to leave so they can eliminate the jews. They left and the arab countries failed to kill the jews, when the jews won they took more land than was promised but hey they just finished with the holocaust and a war, what did anyone expect. After that the palestinians claimed palestine was theirs, it wasn't jews lived there as well, and wanted it back. Still Israel gives parts of it and still they attack. 2 state solution will never work. I feel like peace will only be attained when either jews/israelis are totally eliminated or vice versa OR the world takes a big stand and intervenes, to cause a peace or immediate genocide. All 3 solutions seem unrealistic.