1. #1
    Emily_Haines
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    Your guns are good as gone

    A petition urging the Obama administration to “produce legislation that limits access to guns” has more than 25,000 signatures just hours after its inception.

    “The goal of this petition is to force the Obama Administration to produce legislation that limits access to guns,” it reads in part. “While a national dialogue is critical, laws are the only means in which we can reduce the number of people murdered in gun related deaths.”

    A petition on the White House's “We the People” website needs 25,000 signatures in the first month of being posted to earn an official White House response. The gun control petition – initiated in the wake of the Connecticut elementary school massacre on Friday - reached that threshold in a few hours.

    “Powerful lobbying groups allow the ownership of guns to reach beyond the Constitution's intended purpose of the right to bear arms,” the petition continues. “Therefore, Congress must act on what is stated law, and face the reality that access to firearms reaches beyond what the Second Amendment intends to achieve.”

    White House spokesman Jay Carney declined to answer questions about gun control at a press conference Friday, saying today was not the day to have that discussion. He emphasized that the White House was awaiting more information from Connecticut.

    But the Obama administratin is hearing from some in their own party who are demanding immediate action. Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D-N.Y.) shot back at the White House's claim that it was too soon to start a discussion on gun control, saying he was “challenging President Obama, the Congress, and the American public to act on our outrage and, finally, do something about this.”

    At a press conference, President Obama said meaningful action should be taken to prevent future shooting tragedies.

    The president said "it is time to take meaningful action to prevent more tragedies like this, regardless of the politics," an indication that Obama could be prepared to confront gun control.

    Responding to Obama's press conference, Dan Gross, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, said his organization was encouraged by Obama's comments.

    "We were moved by President Obama's raw emotion during his remarks today," Gross said. "We are committed to working with him to channel it into the change that is too long overdue."

    In 2010 the Brady campaign gave Obama a failing grade on pushing for stricter gun laws.

    New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg (I) responded that Obama needs to do more than call for action.

    "Calling for ‘meaningful action’ is not enough. We need immediate action. We have heard all the rhetoric before," Bloomberg said in a statement. "What we have not seen is leadership – not from the White House and not from Congress. That must end today. This is a national tragedy and it demands a national response. My deepest sympathies are with the families of all those affected, and my determination to stop this madness is stronger than ever."

    In addition, a group that identified itself as "people affected by gun violence — parents, family, friends," organized a demonstration late Friday outside the White House to tell the president "today is the day" to discuss gun control.

  2. #2
    jgray
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    How about we lock up the mentally imbalanced? Wouldn't that solve the problem too?

  3. #3
    PAULYPOKER
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    25,000 out of 312,000,000 is enough to get it done...............

  4. #4
    Harun
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  5. #5
    SBR_John
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    I agree with liberals on this one. The stats dont lie. Japan has strict hand gun laws and only has about 40 gun deaths a year, the US has 60,000. We should amend the Constitution to read that we have the right to bare rifles, not hand guns. I believe that would be consistent with the Founders desire that citizens be able to fight the government if necessary.

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  6. #6
    chilidog
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBR_John View Post
    We should amend the Constitution to read that we have the right to bare rifles, not hand guns.
    Yeah, because it's widely known that shells from rifles can't kill people, only animals.

  7. #7
    paco
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    Just ordered the Taurus Judge last night.

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  8. #8
    Wilfred
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    There absolutely has to be something done. Guns dont kills people, but they certainly help people kill people. Not sure how they are going to have to go about it, but getting rid of all theses submachine guns should be passed tomorrow. And that should only be the beginning.

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  9. #9
    PAULYPOKER
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBR_John View Post
    I agree with liberals on this one. The stats dont lie. Japan has strict hand gun laws and only has about 40 gun deaths a year, the US has 60,000. We should amend the Constitution to read that we have the right to bare rifles, not hand guns. I believe that would be consistent with the Founders desire that citizens be able to fight the government if necessary.
    Especially now with the extreme social welfare gaps,

    If people can't earn it,

    they'll take it,

    this is called basic human survival mode...............

  10. #10
    alling
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    Harvard Study: Gun Control Is Counterproductive

    I've just learned that Washington, D.C.'s petition for a rehearing of the Parker case in the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit was denied today. This is good news. Readers will recall in this case that the D.C. Circuit overturned the decades-long ban on gun ownership in the nation's capitol on Second Amendment grounds.
    However, as my colleague Peter Ferrara explained in his National Review Online article following the initial decision in March, it looks very likely that the United States Supreme Court will take the case on appeal. When it does so - beyond seriously considering the clear original intent of the Second Amendment to protect an individual's right to armed self-defense - the justices of the U.S. Supreme Court would be wise to take into account the findings of a recent study out of Harvard.
    The study, which just appeared in Volume 30, Number 2 of the Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy (pp. 649-694), set out to answer the question in its title: "Would Banning Firearms Reduce Murder and Suicide? A Review of International and Some Domestic Evidence." Contrary to conventional wisdom, and the sniffs of our more sophisticated and generally anti-gun counterparts across the pond, the answer is "no." And not just no, as in there is no correlation between gun ownership and violent crime, but an emphatic no, showing a negative correlation: as gun ownership increases, murder and suicide decreases.
    The findings of two criminologists - Prof. Don Kates and Prof. Gary Mauser - in their exhaustive study of American and European gun laws and violence rates, are telling:
    Nations with stringent anti-gun laws generally have substantially higher murder rates than those that do not. The study found that the nine European nations with the lowest rates of gun ownership (5,000 or fewer guns per 100,000 population) have a combined murder rate three times higher than that of the nine nations with the highest rates of gun ownership (at least 15,000 guns per 100,000 population).
    For example, Norway has the highest rate of gun ownership in Western Europe, yet possesses the lowest murder rate. In contrast, Holland's murder rate is nearly the worst, despite having the lowest gun ownership rate in Western Europe. Sweden and Denmark are two more examples of nations with high murder rates but few guns. As the study's authors write in the report:
    If the mantra "more guns equal more death and fewer guns equal less death" were true, broad cross-national comparisons should show that nations with higher gun ownership per capita consistently have more death. Nations with higher gun ownership rates, however, do not have higher murder or suicide rates than those with lower gun ownership. Indeed many high gun ownership nations have much lower murder rates. (p. 661)
    Finally, and as if to prove the bumper sticker correct - that "gun don't kill people, people do" - the study also shows that Russia's murder rate is four times higher than the U.S. and more than 20 times higher than Norway. This, in a country that practically eradicated private gun ownership over the course of decades of totalitarian rule and police state methods of suppression. Needless to say, very few Russian murders involve guns.
    The important thing to keep in mind is not the rate of deaths by gun - a statistic that anti-gun advocates are quick to recite - but the overall murder rate, regardless of means. The criminologists explain:
    [P]er capita murder overall is only half as frequent in the United States as in several other nations where gunmurder is rarer, but murder by strangling, stabbing, or beating is much more frequent. (p. 663 - emphases in original)
    It is important to note here that Profs. Kates and Mauser are not pro-gun zealots. In fact, they go out of their way to stress that their study neither proves that gun control causes higher murder rates nor that increased gun ownershipnecessarily leads to lower murder rates. (Though, in my view, Prof. John Lott's More Guns, Less Crime does indeed prove the latter.) But what is clear, and what they do say, is that gun control is ineffectual at preventing murder, and apparently counterproductive.
    Not only is the D.C. gun ban ill-conceived on constitutional grounds, it fails to live up to its purpose. If the astronomical murder rate in the nation's capitol, in comparison to cities where gun ownership is permitted, didn't already make that fact clear, this study out of Harvard should.



    http://theacru.org/acru/harvard_stud...terproductive/

  11. #11
    daneblazer
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBR_John View Post
    I agree with liberals on this one. The stats dont lie. Japan has strict hand gun laws and only has about 40 gun deaths a year, the US has 60,000. We should amend the Constitution to read that we have the right to bare rifles, not hand guns. I believe that would be consistent with the Founders desire that citizens be able to fight the government if necessary.
    That's because the Japanese use Kung-Fu instead
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  12. #12
    Wilfred
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    Quote Originally Posted by alling View Post
    Harvard Study: Gun Control Is Counterproductive

    I've just learned that Washington, D.C.'s petition for a rehearing of the Parker case in the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit was denied today. This is good news. Readers will recall in this case that the D.C. Circuit overturned the decades-long ban on gun ownership in the nation's capitol on Second Amendment grounds.
    However, as my colleague Peter Ferrara explained in his National Review Online article following the initial decision in March, it looks very likely that the United States Supreme Court will take the case on appeal. When it does so - beyond seriously considering the clear original intent of the Second Amendment to protect an individual's right to armed self-defense - the justices of the U.S. Supreme Court would be wise to take into account the findings of a recent study out of Harvard.
    The study, which just appeared in Volume 30, Number 2 of the Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy (pp. 649-694), set out to answer the question in its title: "Would Banning Firearms Reduce Murder and Suicide? A Review of International and Some Domestic Evidence." Contrary to conventional wisdom, and the sniffs of our more sophisticated and generally anti-gun counterparts across the pond, the answer is "no." And not just no, as in there is no correlation between gun ownership and violent crime, but an emphatic no, showing a negative correlation: as gun ownership increases, murder and suicide decreases.
    The findings of two criminologists - Prof. Don Kates and Prof. Gary Mauser - in their exhaustive study of American and European gun laws and violence rates, are telling:
    Nations with stringent anti-gun laws generally have substantially higher murder rates than those that do not. The study found that the nine European nations with the lowest rates of gun ownership (5,000 or fewer guns per 100,000 population) have a combined murder rate three times higher than that of the nine nations with the highest rates of gun ownership (at least 15,000 guns per 100,000 population).
    For example, Norway has the highest rate of gun ownership in Western Europe, yet possesses the lowest murder rate. In contrast, Holland's murder rate is nearly the worst, despite having the lowest gun ownership rate in Western Europe. Sweden and Denmark are two more examples of nations with high murder rates but few guns. As the study's authors write in the report:
    If the mantra "more guns equal more death and fewer guns equal less death" were true, broad cross-national comparisons should show that nations with higher gun ownership per capita consistently have more death. Nations with higher gun ownership rates, however, do not have higher murder or suicide rates than those with lower gun ownership. Indeed many high gun ownership nations have much lower murder rates. (p. 661)
    Finally, and as if to prove the bumper sticker correct - that "gun don't kill people, people do" - the study also shows that Russia's murder rate is four times higher than the U.S. and more than 20 times higher than Norway. This, in a country that practically eradicated private gun ownership over the course of decades of totalitarian rule and police state methods of suppression. Needless to say, very few Russian murders involve guns.
    The important thing to keep in mind is not the rate of deaths by gun - a statistic that anti-gun advocates are quick to recite - but the overall murder rate, regardless of means. The criminologists explain:
    [P]er capita murder overall is only half as frequent in the United States as in several other nations where gunmurder is rarer, but murder by strangling, stabbing, or beating is much more frequent. (p. 663 - emphases in original)
    It is important to note here that Profs. Kates and Mauser are not pro-gun zealots. In fact, they go out of their way to stress that their study neither proves that gun control causes higher murder rates nor that increased gun ownershipnecessarily leads to lower murder rates. (Though, in my view, Prof. John Lott's More Guns, Less Crime does indeed prove the latter.) But what is clear, and what they do say, is that gun control is ineffectual at preventing murder, and apparently counterproductive.
    Not only is the D.C. gun ban ill-conceived on constitutional grounds, it fails to live up to its purpose. If the astronomical murder rate in the nation's capitol, in comparison to cities where gun ownership is permitted, didn't already make that fact clear, this study out of Harvard should.



    http://theacru.org/acru/harvard_stud...terproductive/
    Why don't you go look at the other countries that have some type of control and then look at the gun deaths and compare it to us. Hopefully you don't believe this garbage.

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  13. #13
    str
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    Discussions like these, while useful, should IMO be saved for another time.

    Now , just does not seem like the time.

    Those poor parents and family members.

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  14. #14
    Darkside Magick
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    Quote Originally Posted by daneblazer View Post
    That's because the Japanese use Kung-Fu instead
    kung-fu is Chinese loser!!!!!
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  15. #15
    wantitall4moi
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    Not to go totally racist, but check out the demographics in those countries cited compared to ours, then the circumstances. But to go fully racist with shit that happened yesterday and similar it is a white guy doing it. But even with the mass killings we have seen the past couple months it is a drop in the bucket to the black on black killings that happen everyday all day.

    The numbers list around 11K deaths, in these mass shooting like the movie theater, the mall, this school, how many deaths? Less than 50. Yet because of the circumstances they get highlights and Obama on TV crying and Nancy grace loosing her mind. But there are 10,700 more during the year. I would be willing to bet more than 20 in that number are also children.

    Not to downplay what happened yesterday but it shows the sensationalism that takes place over random acts of violence in 'small town' areas, and the desensitized views we have of a steady and constant stream of killings all across the country all day every day. Obviously a bunch of little kids getting killed in a school is horrible, but is is worse than a few hundred inner city kids who get killed by stray drive by shooting bullets every year?

  16. #16
    Wilfred
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    Quote Originally Posted by str View Post
    Discussions like these, while useful, should IMO be saved for another time.

    Now , just does not seem like the time.

    Those poor parents and family members.
    If not now when? This is exactly when it should be talked about so it can actually fuel change. Unfortunately we live in an ADD society where on Wednesday this probably won't be top news anymore. This is the perfect time to talk about it.

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  17. #17
    hels
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    A man in China killed 20 school children with a knife yesterday.

    Guns and knives don't kill people folks.

  18. #18
    Bostongambler
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    Lot easier when guns are available

  19. #19
    sitzlejd
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    Quote Originally Posted by paco View Post
    Just ordered the Taurus Judge last night.
    The judge is nuts. A pistol that shoots shotgun shells.

  20. #20
    Wilfred
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    Quote Originally Posted by hels View Post
    A man in China killed 20 school children with a knife yesterday.

    Guns and knives don't kill people folks.
    Thanks for helping the argument. He INJURED them. Not killed. If he had a gun they would be dead.

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  21. #21
    sitzlejd
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    [QUOTE=hels;17130908]A man in China killed 20 school children with a knife yesterday.

    WRONG! All 20 were only injured. All survived. Thanks for making the case for gun control.

  22. #22
    onacloud
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfred View Post
    Thanks for helping the argument. He INJURED them. Not killed. If he had a gun they would be dead.
    [QUOTE=sitzlejd;17130974]
    Quote Originally Posted by hels View Post
    A man in China killed 20 school children with a knife yesterday.

    WRONG! All 20 were only injured. All survived. Thanks for making the case for gun control.
    If this is the case for gun control good luck!

  23. #23
    sitzlejd
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    How does it not help the argument?

  24. #24
    jarvol
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    The day the US government attempts to ban guns is the day America as you know it with 50 unified states comes to a screeching halt.

  25. #25
    onacloud
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    Quote Originally Posted by sitzlejd View Post
    How does it not help the argument?
    How does it becasue a man sliced some kids and they didn't die that means guns should be banned?


    What if he had this?


    I think his 'slices' would have done much more damage but honestly I could kill anyone with a butter knife to the throat.....

  26. #26
    Darkside Magick
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    That's a nasty knife...damn!!!!

  27. #27
    SamDiamond
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    Yeah, the 2nd Amendment is going to be repealed with a GOP House.

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  28. #28
    SBR_John
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    Quote Originally Posted by chilidog View Post
    Yeah, because it's widely known that shells from rifles can't kill people, only animals.
    Of course they can as can a UHaul full of fertilizer. But its difficult to stick 3 deer rifles in your belt and carry a canister of ammo in your back pocket. The idea is to drastically reduce gun deaths, not eliminate them. But at the same time respect the Constitution. The Founding Fathers were clear that citizens should have the right to be armed to fight any oppressive government that may develop. You fight wars with rifles not hand guns so banning hand guns should be Constitutionally acceptable to all although I realize many won't like it.
    Nomination(s):
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  29. #29
    mynameismud
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harun View Post
    thats just incredible.

  30. #30
    onacloud
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkside Magick View Post
    That's a nasty knife...damn!!!!
    Only cost $20 as well...... but if I had that and ran in a room of children they could fight me off right?

  31. #31
    Wilfred
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    Quote Originally Posted by onacloud View Post
    Only cost $20 as well...... but if I had that and ran in a room of children they could fight me off right?
    I think the 8 Adults could probably of done something.

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  32. #32
    Darkside Magick
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    Quote Originally Posted by onacloud View Post
    Only cost $20 as well...... but if I had that and ran in a room of children they could fight me off right?
    That knife right there is some real deal shyt.....make you think!

  33. #33
    sitzlejd
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    Its obviously less efficient than a handgun. Maybe you have to fight with the teacher for a few seconds or minutes while the kids run out. Who knows.

  34. #34
    a4u2fear
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    Can you list the number of gang related deaths in that hand gun photo?

    List them per state too. I live in NY and in my county, it's verrrry difficult to get a hand gun, I bet the deaths are much higher in states where you need 0 qualifications

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  35. #35
    Darkside Magick
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfred View Post
    I think the 8 Adults could probably of done something.
    I don't know .....if you are trained in some form of arts and/or military training.....you knock off the adults with that knife..nothing they could do

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