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Learning Poker-tournament strategy
Does anyone know a book/website that would be good to learn tournament-poker strategy?
This is an open-ended question, for 2 reasons:
1) Most of the poker literature out there is junk.
2) Poker is largely a game of experience. IE, you learn by playing and correcting your mistakes.
So many fine points that are not obvious. How to play various stack-sizes. How to play vs different style players.
I'm looking to fine tune my game as well, chucky. It has been years since of done any work on my game and feel like I'm just playing on auto pilot most of the time. I know there are leaks in my game. Anyhow, it seems like some of the sites where top players make videos playing tournaments and cash games are probably the best way. I really don't know which training sites are the best, maybe some others with knowledge can chime in? I could be wrong, but it seems to me that watching a knowledgeable player actually playing and giving their analysis in certain spots(what they are doing and why they are doing it) would be very helpful.
Hey, Jake. Guess I should have refined my question a little more.
There's a saying about poker: "Takes a day to learn, a lifetime to master." Some truth to that.
I'm mostly a tournament-player. I watch a lot of tournament videos, to pick up on what players are doing.
The one tip I give to people. The cards are much more intimidating b4 they are revealed. After u see the opponent cards, MORE OFTEN THAN NOT the cards are less daunting. Hard to make a hand in hold-em.
I'd like to better prepared in situations like "on the bubble." I'm sure I misplay that. As for coaches, I'm not a big Doug Polk fan, his ego is too big. I do like Parker Talbot (tonkaap).
In my opinion , you must adjust to different tournament structure.
A $3 buy in has different player than a 10, 15 50 100 1000 and so on.
Those also has different amounts of players and rithm ,as turbo super turbo normal or even 1/2 hours blind.
That will influence a strategic approach to each and kind of players.
Any book is a guideline , your experience is what will matter as you will develop a style and that will influence your play.
In sum is like any professional, Dr, lawyer, ingenier, arquitec, account any, they all go to university,but in order to succeed they need to differ from their pairs.
personally, I rarely worry about cashing or limping into the money and am more concerned with getting chips to win the tournament. If I bubble, so be it.Originally Posted by ChuckyTheGoat
I completely agree with you on your take about Polk vs Tonka..I much prefer Tonka's personality. I watch his streams on twitch once and awhile. I find that on Twitch, there are some really great established poker players on there but they are boring to watch and I can't hack them for more than 5-10 minutes.
If u listen to some of the poker-pros, one of the 1st things they'll talk about is how to play speculative hands, relative to the stack-depths.
There are some hands you'd love to play. But there has to be deep stacks, where you can get paid off if u make your hand.
Been playing more 6max:
* I'm now of the opinion that full ring (9 or 10 players) is just too much. Playing from early position mostly gets u in trouble...or gets u no action if u hold a monster. And full ring is too slow. 6max much better, imho.
Want to get better at poker? Stay away from SBR Poker. It's only going to make your game worse. Not even talking about the software, just the general play is bordering atrocious.
Hold'em manager2 software program....best $100 you'll ever spend
Sweep, I busted out tournament other day in infamous fashion. Getting pretty close to $bubble, I'm easily in good shape to cash, maybe a strong cash.
Blind on blind, always tricky. I hold AK in small-blind, come in for a raise, get re-raised. I look at my chip-stack and say all-in. Blinds heads-up, so tricky. His raise MAY NOT be that strong. Ez to say now, I should have called and played out the hand. Hate to bust out on this hand. He has AA, I go out like a donk.
Push your edges Chuck. Don't be hard on yourself if you run into the top of their range once in a while. Tourneys are about winning not cashing. The variance is enough to make you sick though
Sharp, very true about HUGE variance in poker-tournies. Much higher than people think.
On the AK hand, I know most people would play it similarly. The error I made is pushing w/ too big of a stack. At my stack, should have called and play a flop. too deep to bust out on that. Had to concede that opponent probably had better hand.
Only way is to play real money live for years and learn
The best book(s) I have read is Dan Harrington's 3 book series that deals strictly with advanced tournament strategy. I read them a few years ago and it seemed to be the only book that caters to those who must already know the basics.
There are two books and a third workbook. He gets into implied pot odds and when and how you should play based on your chip stack compared to tournament blinds.
Definetly worth reading.
https://www.amazon.com/Harrington-Ex.../dp/1880685337
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/18806..._dp_1880685353
These books are the only ones I have read that don't seem to duplicate the plethora of poker books on the market. It is also great to see some intermediate content.
All the fine points you mentioned that are not obvious are addressed as well as other situational knowledge.
He even prefaces the books by warning the reader you should already be well acquainted with the basics or you won't fully understand its content.
It won't make you a pro but it will improve your game.
Experience is equally important if you learn from it. You can read the above books cover to cover but you need to play on a regular basis.
As a counterpoint, you can play every day but if you don't learn anything, your spinning your wheels.
I took a year off playing cards because of work and my game went down the toilet. It has been years since I have hit the 2 + 2 forums.
Last edited by qwertvt; 02-16-17 at 11:32 PM.
I try to model my play after Dan Harrington. Can't go wrong with him.
When are we gonna start up the last longer bets again with a 1st place bonus? I'm itching to lose.
SLA, you know I'm up for it any time. Just let me know any time u see me in the room.
I'll offer a counter-opinion. Don't really like Harrington. Too tight for my taste. In one book, he reviewed 10 hands...all of which he won!
Good ole "Action Dan" is a tight player but I still think his tournament books are worth a read.
Q, I have read 2 of Dan's books. Just feel like it's dated material. The "tight is right" thinking is too basic, for my taste.
I know Dan's a bit older now. Has he had a big tourney cash in a while?
The one poker item I agree w/ is this:
* The BEST players adjust to their opponent the quickest. What works? What doesn't work?
I think the best player figures this out quickly.
The note re: huge variance in tournament-poker is so true, tho. Playing for stacks, u have to dodge (or catch) the right cards. Can be gone on the next hand.
Harrington teaches critical thinking and basic math - not sure how you think that is dated
Based on what I read, he advocates super-tight ranges. That effectively makes HIM easier to read.
Sweeper, wrap your head around this one:
I call a raise, take a flop w/ 87(hearts).
Flop comes T(h), K(h), 7(s). I have bottom pair + flush draw.
Opponent makes a healthy bet. More than 50% of my stack, so I go all-in. He calls. I'm > 50/50 vs AA. Off to the races.
No, guy was bluffing his ass off. He had 66. He doesn't beat anything on the board.
What's the runout? Turn is a 6! River is a K. MFer made a runner-runner Full House.
tourny or cash? If was cash i would have smashed everything within 5 foot of me....Pretty much how ive been running in '17 chuck
It was a tournament, toward the business end.
On tournaments, one tip I'd give to people. Take a look at the payout structure. In most of the tournaments I play, it's very much skewed to HIGH-END finishes. Just cashing might get 2x or 3x your buy-in. The real $$ is on the top-end. Have to play to finish top10 to get the REAL $$.
Twitch Poker or Tournament Poker Edge.
Piratebay imo
Action Dan had a great run during the boom but those donks are long gone and a lot of his strategies are easily exploited now. The basic theory is obviously sound but the game has passed a lot of his work by. Just like Doyle's super system that used to be worth $1000s
Chuckster, it seems like you already have a lot of this tourney game figured out. Poker angles are just like sports angles, the ones you come up with yourself are usually better and more profitable than tailing someone else IF your cut out for the game. IF you're not, treat it like a hobby and sleep better at night.
Sharp, that's my impression re: Dan. Like anything, a timely work can get dated.
I feel ok about my game, especially compared to where I was 3 years ago. But you always want to get better.
http://www.bestpokertorrents.com/ is still around. Man feels like I haven't played poker other than SBR in forever
Dane, we can get back into the poker tourney circuit.
Time to live again. You in?
I'm with ya. Hate that it's still illegal and the sites that Americans can play are meh at best. When I was in NJ a couple years ago I remembered how much I like online poker. Don't have time to drive 45 minutes to the casino to spend all day there then back.
Sweep, I'm now of the opinion that 6max is much better than full-ring (9 or 10 players). 2 obvious reasons:
1) The pace of full-ring is way too slow. Takes forever to make it around.
2) Playing from early position (usually) gets you in trouble. So hard to play correctly there. So often, you're just better off folding.
Theres actually a place within 45 minutes from I live that I could play live ...just don't feel like it and it's tough to make it consistently with two little kids
Full ring online can be horribly boring if that's all youre doing. Still have to table select well regardless of what you play
Last edited by daneblazer; 02-25-17 at 07:10 AM.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM4f3Pv57u8
Famous hand, Polk vs Torelli.
Just my opinion, but I see one tell from Polk. Pretty dry flop, except for 2 spades. Polk is repping AA or AK.
IF that's the hand he had, flop bet would be smaller. 60% of pot is too big. Torelli's pre-flop call is unlikely to be suited cards. Torelli's hand range is a pair that's too good to fold: 99, TT, or JJ. Exactly what he has.
If Polk has set of Aces, he's going to play super-slow. If he has TPTK, he can still play slow. He's value-betting. Extract 3 streets of value, don't be a pig. The fact he bets big tells me that he's trying to get Torelli to lay it down.
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