[indio]

Poker is gambling with skill involved. If we play a game of pool, it's a game of skill. If we put $5 on it, it's gambling. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

Poker and Pool are games that both involve skill and luck (just like golf and a hundred other sports/games). The element of a stake is totally irrelevant to that, with the grand exception that almost no one will take the hours and years of practice to be good at either unless their is some potential for financial benefit.

If you don't think there's a LOT of luck in 9-ball, then you don't understand pool that much. I can beat a better player in a race to 7 in 9-ball, and even get hot and beat him a few races in row. But if we play every day, he''ll always win more than me at the end of the year. Poker is no different. I can play an inferior player in HU sit and go's and lose 5+ of 10 games 1/3 of the time, will lose 50+ out of 100 occasionally, but if I play an inferior player 1,000 + times, I'll win every time.

[Ra77er]

I would much prefer to play poker with friends personally. The chat with some on SBR Poker is entertaining at times but most of the time it turns into a bitch fest over a bad beat.

I think the only MTT I would ever wanna play in my life is the main event. I look at it like the lottery, if I am going to run hotter than hades once in my life I want it to be for a big payout.

It's why I don't do mega millions until it gets insanely high.

The guys that grind it out everyday and love the game more passionately than I do.....much respect.

[indio]

Here is all you need to know most poker pros end up flat broke

Who only see players winnings and not how much they have lost

A rare few with big endorsements make money...its a game of chance and you have a way better shot betting sports

You should really refrain from talking about things you are absolutely clueless about. Many people can make a living playing poker, and most of them do it online. Not only is it a game of skill, it's one of the most skillfull games there is. As governments look to squeeze revenues from the games, the player pools dwindle and the rake increases in some countries, it is becoming MUCH harder to do, but there are still thousands of people who play poker online who along with rakeback make 6 figures a year. And you probably don't recognize 99.5% of them by name or face. It's hard work, and quite honestly, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone young unless they either have no other viable career paths they like, and/or they absolutely LOVE the game of poker. It's not easy, in fact, when dealing with variance, it's downright brutal. Same as in options trading, but there you can hook up with big firms and people think you're respectable and not a degenerate even thought you're doing essentially the same thing.

It's a heck of a lot easier to make money off of average to below average poker players than it is to beat pro lines makers and their holds and adjusted markets.
Just like most poker pro's play online, same go's for most sports betting pro's. Trying to beat square corporate rip off books in Vegas with 4.5%+ holds, and limiting or barring at their discretion is a pipe dream for most everyone.

[scumbag]

So guys, I'm currently at the ripe young age of 22 and I have a dream....to become a professional poker player. I don't think SBR poker is a good indicator of talent, and I doubt low cash .50 cent antis on bet365 are either. Anyway, I know a bunch of you guys are a bit older and/or are talented and knowledgable about the poker world. How would you go about this dream? I know it is an unlikely goal, but I want to be at least good enough to make side income. I'm a sport bettor during NFL/NBA/NCAAF/NCAAB, but I should never be allowed to touch an MLB game. During summer would be a nice time to play poker.

Also a couple more questions. Are most poker sites rigged? and are professional poker players really raking in cash because they are good at poker or is it all a facade?

Thanks guys, much appreciated.

i grinded for years in vegas, still live here off sports winnings. don't play much poker these days though.

if i were you i'd want to follow some of these basics:

- play cash games only. take some occasional shots at some medium buy-in tourneys to try to make a big score. don't do this until you are comfortably crushing 2/5 and have a reasonable roll of 20k.

- always leave yourself with outs (both on the table and in life)

- really ask yourself why you think you're going to be one of the few who is able to live a decent life while supporting yourself in such an unpredictable way. you need to have be an stone-cold soldier - emotionally - too many people think they have this but don't. most people fail because they can't handle the emotions of it all

- keep whatever job you have until you have at least 1500 hours of 1/2 in and can get a better feel for if this is going to be a fit (i'm assuming you don't have much experience, live anyway).

how much money do you have? what is your situation? where are you going to be playing?

[pavyracer]

You better not wake up. Most pro poker players end up broke.

[scumbag]

it is a mirage if you think you're going to be some "tourney pro", or a millionaire, but you can certainly make more money than you could at most other things.

it just depends how good you are. there are a few dozen people making real money at 5/10 (100k ish), and a few dozen at 2/5 making maybe 60k.

there aren't as many people crushing as you'd think. there might be 20 guys in all of vegas playing the stakes i played that were making a real living.

[scumbag]

You better not wake up. Most pro poker players end up broke.

one thing i do know: i don't want to be a 50 y/o grinder.

[Auto Donk]

i grinded for years in vegas, still live here off sports winnings. don't play much poker these days though.

if i were you i'd want to follow some of these basics:

- play cash games only. take some occasional shots at some medium buy-in tourneys to try to make a big score. don't do this until you are comfortably crushing 2/5 and have a reasonable roll of 20k.

- always leave yourself with outs (both on the table and in life)

- really ask yourself why you think you're going to be one of the few who is able to live a decent life while supporting yourself in such an unpredictable way. you need to have be an stone-cold soldier - emotionally - too many people think they have this but don't. most people fail because they can't handle the emotions of it all

- keep whatever job you have until you have at least 1500 hours of 1/2 in and can get a better feel for if this is going to be a fit (i'm assuming you don't have much experience, live anyway).

how much money do you have? what is your situation? where are you going to be playing?

damn good advice here.......

[jjgold]

it is a mirage if you think you're going to be some "tourney pro", or a millionaire, but you can certainly make more money than you could at most other things.

it just depends how good you are. there are a few dozen people making real money at 5/10 (100k ish), and a few dozen at 2/5 making maybe 60k.

there aren't as many people crushing as you'd think. there might be 20 guys in all of vegas playing the stakes i played that were making a real living.

thats prove how tough it is and proves my point most pros LOSE

[Jrod124]

Southy hit the nail on the head. If this was 2004 you may have a chance.

[Dirty Sanchez]

thats prove how tough it is and proves my point most pros LOSE

Go the route Booyah goes...Male Whore...dude is killing it

[Sledge187]

one thing i do know: i don't want to be a 50 y/o grinder.

All poker pros seem like they hate life. Lots of pill popping. One guy told me that he takes Excedrin Extra Strength Headache medicine bc of the caffeine in it. Gives him an edge at the table.

[LEOLEO]

SCUMBAG , pretty much nailed it......

[LEOLEO]

Read Doyle Brunson's book.

Avoid playing online.

Play at local casinos or house games.

very much agree with ridin dirty, as well
local cash games, friday night sat nights, is where to start, youll know soon enuff, if ur ready...
avoid online, WAY too many people, in MANY A COUNTRIES, know what their doing in that department,
and software, pushes agenda of making money move, back and forth, so more unrealistic starting hands,
wont learn the patience you'll need
and theres less psychology online, ur opponents tells, rebuy history at table, etc, is muchmore evident at cash games,
youll know a whale when u see one, A grinder
or huge DEGEN

[TheAntFather]

Poker and Pool are games that both involve skill and luck (just like golf and a hundred other sports/games). The element of a stake is totally irrelevant to that, with the grand exception that almost no one will take the hours and years of practice to be good at either unless their is some potential for financial benefit.

If you don't think there's a LOT of luck in 9-ball, then you don't understand pool that much. I can beat a better player in a race to 7 in 9-ball, and even get hot and beat him a few races in row. But if we play every day, he''ll always win more than me at the end of the year. Poker is no different. I can play an inferior player in HU sit and go's and lose 5+ of 10 games 1/3 of the time, will lose 50+ out of 100 occasionally, but if I play an inferior player 1,000 + times, I'll win every time.

Exactly, dane made no sense, I just stopped replying after his post.

[daneblazer]

Exactly, dane made no sense, I just stopped replying after his post.

I think he's agreeing with me. Some people don't see poker as a game of skill, but they see pool as one. All you're basically doing in poker is putting yourself in a spot you think is correct and betting on it. If two people of the same skill set play each other in a vacuum, they would play break even poker over time. If you put Jj against Phil Ivey, who do you think would come ahead over time? There's luck involved in both pool & poker, there's skill involved in both, but once you put money on the game it's gambling.

[TheAntFather]

I think he's agreeing with me. Some people don't see poker as a game of skill, but they see pool as one. All you're basically doing in poker is putting yourself in a spot you think is correct and betting on it. If two people of the same skill set play each other in a vacuum, they would play break even poker over time. If you put Jj against Phil Ivey, who do you think would come ahead over time? There's luck involved in both pool & poker, there's skill involved in both, but once you put money on the game it's gambling.

I think not. He is not agreeing with you. Read his post again. But anyways, it has been proven time after time that poker is a SKILL game. This is why players like Phil Ivey, Phill Hellmuth, Doyle Brunson, TJ Cloutier, Johnny Chan and many others have won multiple titles and many millions in poker. They are not the luckiest people in the world. Billy Baxter, a Poker Pro with 7 Bracelets Sued the IRS in court and won easily in proving Poker is a SKILL game and that poker should be taxed like a normal 9 to 5 job and not be taxed as gambling. He's one of the Godfathers in poker. Look it up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baxter_v._United_States

The case of Baxter v. United States is currently being cited by opponents of the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act (UIGEA). Opponents of the UIGEA argue that because poker is a game of skill, the UIGEA does not apply to online poker sites.^[4]

[jjgold]

all the old timers won back then because NOBODY WAS PLAYING tourneys..you had some guys with good math skills taking all the money

good look now ..new names all the time no matter what tourney

75% of fields now have good math skills and computer type guys

its a crapshoot all the time

[Ghenghis Kahn]

you're saying tourney poker is skill?

also, you need to get breaks and run well. player of equal abilities can have drastic differences in their bankrolls due to luck.

people's belief of over time everything evening out is a fallacy. when i was using huds and checking data, my personal ev graph was way below expectation and never got close to getting to 0. this is after playing over million hands so there's enough sample size.

not saying poker isn't a game of skill but you do need a lot of luck to get over the hump.

also the key is controlling your emotions and not tilting your roll away. i've had many instances where i would win in consecutive days but i would lose my roll in one day because of massive tilt. winning is easy, it's how you handle your losses. that's the most important aspect of gambling.

there was a study done where losing affects gamblers more than winning. that's why it's easier said than done but controlling tilt takes time and practice.

[jjgold]

poker became a crapshoot as soon as soon as it became commercialized and the internet emerged

[Ghenghis Kahn]

actually let me rephrase that, sng takes skills but huge tourney's are called donkaments for a reason...

[Ghenghis Kahn]

yes if you want to make money consistently you have to play cash games, not tourneys.

[yydouble]

there was a study done where losing affects gamblers more than winning. that's why it's easier said than done but controlling tilt takes time and practice.

Very true.
Pain's the best teacher.

GK I like your posts.

[daneblazer]

It's not just gamblers, it's human nature. Most poker players spend much of their time miserable.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nOX1Hn-bw1k

[Ballerholic]

Thanks guys! I really appreciate the advice. I definitely need to read up on the game, and learn about the percentages of each play and study my opponents. I think I'll start playing cash games on bovada and work my way up from there. If I want to play $.5/1 NL or 1/2 NL how large should my bankroll be?

[niltes]

some of these random thoughts might help you

1) you don't have to be a great poker player to make money, you just
need to better than your competition.

2) you need to accurately know where you fit on the poker food chain

3) most people overestimate their own abilities and underestimate their opponents.

4) you will need tremendous discipline and have almost no personal or gambling leaks

5) not only must you win, but you must win enough to cover your living expenses or
else you will reduce your bankroll.

6) no matter what you think your bankroll should be , it is likely you are undercapitalized.
if you are undercapitalized, it is likely you will bust out as poker has a lot of natural
fluctuations to it.

7) home games are usually much easier than casino games and are not always a good
indicator of ones ability

8) playing for a living is a real grind unless one is a poker savant

9) always listen to JJGOLD

[daneblazer]

Thanks guys! I really appreciate the advice. I definitely need to read up on the game, and learn about the percentages of each play and study my opponents. I think I'll start playing cash games on bovada and work my way up from there. If I want to play $.5/1 NL or 1/2 NL how large should my bankroll be?

If you're learning, start at 25nl. Probably just 2 or 3 tables. Look into getting holdem indicator. While 100nl on Bovada is a far cry from 100nl on Stars, there are still good players there. If you are both learning how to play and don't have a Hud, you are going to get exploited at 100nl and up

[SharpAngles]

A lot of surprisingly solid advice here mixed in with the typical nonsense.


You can 100% be a "poker pro" but it all depends on your personal definition of pro. As your expected income raises the percentage of being successful lowers unless you're skilled compared to your opponents.

it is a mirage if you think you're going to be some "tourney pro", or a millionaire, but you can certainly make more money than you could at most other things.

it just depends how good you are. there are a few dozen people making real money at 5/10 (100k ish), and a few dozen at 2/5 making maybe 60k.

there aren't as many people crushing as you'd think. there might be 20 guys in all of vegas playing the stakes i played that were making a real living.

sorry but this is lol other than the first line. Tourney pro just means you have a network of backers or a giant bankroll, I'll agree with you there.

As far as cash games, especially in Vegas and a few other big poker cities, it is very possible to get a winrate like that. I know more than a dozen guys in LA alone who CRUSH 5/10 and under NL games for way better than 100k but nobody has ever heard of them, just the way they want it. It all comes down to your skills at poker and your skills at finding good game conditions to grind.

[Ballerholic]

yea holdem indicator would help a lot and I think 25nl would be a good start as well. Thanks

[sinmiedo]

yea holdem indicator would help a lot and I think 25nl would be a good start as well. Thanks

i agree with the dane's input. listen to him as i know him as a player, but, better yet as a well rounded knowledge poker player, with vry good points in Bankroll management
Bovada .25 is an excellent start, as well as 5 and 10 dollars double up sng tables that you can easily be profitable,
i also suggest some 5 dollars tournaments at best, to keep you busy while the playing the boring cash games while you are card dead.7
personally i m playing a lot of plo, but i do not recommend that to starters as i had a huge curve that cost me a few thousands of my winnings in nlh , booth cash and tournaments in the last 18 months, but , finally i m braking even and making a bit of profit.
Also play big tournaments providing getting in via satellites.
This advice is coming from a brake even player as i m playing poker for 8 years with the same bank rooll that started from free rolls and 200 deposit that i retorted to my regular wallet, and this is something you must do, never mix the wallets, 1 for poker, one for the rest. If you can do that, consider that you are 50% a professional player, nevermind playing Tom Dwan or Sam Farhat, just play peoplethat you can win money of, move out from the table tha has more than 2 sharks, as you will not only loose time, you may lose money.

Good luck buddy.

[Auto Donk]

imho, advising someone to start playing poker on Blowvada to see if the game is for them is a tactic you only use if you love the person, and truly don't want them to try and play poker for a living......

that site is the biggest crock of bullshit on the planet.......

you wanna play poker for a living, do your research, learn the game, read navarro's shit on tells, and go play live to cut your teeth....... 3/6 or 4/8 limit for a few months, then wander over to the 1/3 nlhe........

trust me when I say this, I experienced more incredible bad beats in half a week on Blowvada than I have in 9 years of playing live.....

blowvada is in no way representative of "real" poker; the only similarity is your dealt two hole cards, a flop, a turn, and river.....

[Ballerholic]

Thanks guys.

Auto- where should I play poker online then? To make money I'd have to be able to play online

[sinmiedo]

Thanks guys.


Auto- where should I play poker online then? To make money I'd have to be able to play online

i know that they pay on time and that for me is a lot.

[SharpAngles]

Thanks guys.

Auto- where should I play poker online then? To make money I'd have to be able to play online

If you're American you've lost before you even started. Moving any decent money is too difficult in the current environment. Maybe move to Nevada and grind wsop.com if it has to be online.

[Ballerholic]

im American, but I'm currently living in Europe. So moving money is no issue. Anywhere you guys would recommend out here? I know most of you wouldn't really know, but if some know of legitimate poker sites out here please let me know.