[PAULYPOKER]

What do you think is higher? The cash value of my betpoints or your net worth? Pauly, sweetheart, my hobby is SBR/Points, just like your hobby is trolling, anti-government, conspiracy theories and blaming others. Everybody has to have something to do to keep them entertained.

And probably more of my points have come from gambling and poker. For every good borrower or two there is usually a deadbeat stiff soon to follow which kinda really cuts into the profit margins.

I did not mean to hit a spot of guilt driven consciousnesses in that ridiculously over inflated FALSE ego of yours pal.....

Hell, I actually believed you had no conscious,I guess we learn something new everyday...........

[downsouth]

I did not mean to hit a spot of guilt driven consciousnesses in that ridiculously over inflated FALSE ego of yours pal.....

Hell, I actually believed you had no conscious,I guess we learn something new everyday...........

Guilt? for what? And as far as ego, of course im confident in what I do. You generally have to if your going to make anything for yourself.
Now run along and make sure not to forget your tin hat, your talking to me like I'm someone who cares.

[PAULYPOKER]

^ there you go again, all Yin and no Yang,I thought we were making progress,apparently not.............

[downsouth]

^ there you go again, all Yin and no Yang,I thought we were making progress,apparently not.............

Have to keep you guessing. Calling it a night but dont worry, Im sure we can do this again tommorow. Or I will at least make sure I let you know next I buy a foreclosure or have to evict somebody.

[Kaladarus]

How is the min raise fine there. After he does it there is zero fold equity left in his hand. Min raise does nothing but entices the big blind to flat call (which he did)

If somebody shoves back at you odds are your beat you still have to call so why not shove pre and just hope to take down the blinds/antes. Which at that point would still increase your stack over 1500.

Dane explained it really well. It's not really a move I use often either, but I think it's alright in some spots.

If you honestly believe you (being the BB) "have to call" and that there is no fold equity when the flop hits then the move has worked quite well against you. A9s has your range comfortably beat. (Not that you would be making a bad call here knowing this because many times pot odds make your call good) Either way though you are going to be behind more often than not and pretty much forced to call the flop when you were a slight dog preflop.

Against a tighter player they may think they are up against a hand that could have them dominated and will fold just as often if not more often to the min raise. This is especially true if they know Emily is jamming almost any flop.

Knowing that the money is going in on the flop and the bet looks like it's asking to be called many players may feel that even pairing a hand that is likely in their range may not be enough and therefore the min raise goes through preflop.

Also seeing that Emily has about 40% of his stack in the middle the min raise effectively stops the squeeze play.

[downsouth]

Im not saying that the BB has no fold equity, im big blind, I call, I completely miss and its an easy fold still. Im saying he is giving plenty of odds to call the initial raise being he is calling only 800 more to win almost 3000. Of course he is going to call and A 9 is such a vunerable hand that if/when you miss you have very little to push him off the hand. (especially in emily's above scenario where the big blind has a large stack). Guy will call 800 more with a lot of rags but he is not going to call 3200 in the above scenario (donkboxes who call whatever excluded of course)

I guess I just play these slightly different as they tend to play fairly close to a turbo type structure and with under 5 big blinds left I just generally avoid the "cute" plays and stick to the basics of trying to take down blinds and increase stack with as little resistance as possible.

And please do not take anything im saying as confrontational as I just enjoy the conversation of the game.

[daneblazer]

Personally, after looking at the hand a little better, I'd like to be a little closer to the button to min raise. I'm not going to bore anyone with explaining a the strategy of a stop and go... but I think against passive players...those who call pf and only carry on the flop if they catch something, it can be very useful. Again...not my favorite play in this situation, I'd prefer a shove, but I don't believe the min raise a terrible play or even a bad one. A terrible play would be limping haha. You do the min raise pf, shove/call post to get slightly better hands to fold or induce action from a worse hand. If you're going to do this, I don't see the point in creating a thread about being sucked out on when you achieve your goal by getting action from a worse hand.

[BeerDog99]

I'm not going to bore anyone with explaining a the strategy of a stop and go... but I think against passive players...those who call pf and only carry on the flop if they catch something, it can be very useful.

I for one would not mind your explanation, intelligent discussion of options and thoughts about poker hands is the only benefit of these "frustration" threads.

You do the min raise pf, shove/call post to get slightly better hands to fold or induce action from a worse hand. If you're going to do this, I don't see the point in creating a thread about being sucked out on when you achieve your goal by getting action from a worse hand.

This is in my opinion, fundamental to the correct poker mindset. It is very frustrating when a worst hand calls and beats your hand but really how else to you win at poker in the long run?

Really you just hope you stay on the side of the odds overall and try to get as much value out of the hands you do get against the stations and lagtards that play the various hands poorly.

[ballahollic2]

When we have a guy with few criticizing the play of one with many, yes they are.

I have no poker badges and think your play is horrible so I must be wrong and know absolutely nothing lol

[daneblazer]

I for one would not mind your explanation, intelligent discussion of options and thoughts about poker hands is the only benefit of these "frustration" threads.

Well first, this hand in the OP isn't really a true stop and go candidate, I said that it could set up a similar situation. Let's say the blinds are 100/200 and you have 1200 chips in the SB. Action folds around to the button who raises to 600. You look down at KJ in the SB. You know the button could be just trying to steal here with a huge range...but there's always a chance of him having a decent hand. What you do know is that if you shove here preflop, you're going to get called nearly all of the time. So instead of shoving just call the 600 raise leaving 600 in front of you. Regardless of the flop, you shove. If the flop comes something like Q 9 5, and the button raised with something like A8, KJ, or even 88 77 66 89 etc...the button will have a tough decision to make. He's getting around a 2:1 odds to call, but he could believe that you could very well have a Q, 9, better pocket pair, etc and decide to fold. Thus you win a nice pot with a hand which probably would have lost had you just shoved PF.

That's all a stop and go does, create some extra fold equity. In this example, even if you're called on the flop you could have a backdoor flush draw and a gutshot straight draw...maybe a K could save the day or a runner runner J. So even if you're called here, you're not dead in the water. You would have been called PF anyway! It doesn't work all the time of course, but there's a time and place for it. Definitely a move to put in your poker toolbox.

[BeerDog99]

Thanks Dane!

[Hurls]

Well first, this hand in the OP isn't really a true stop and go candidate, I said that it could set up a similar situation. Let's say the blinds are 100/200 and you have 1200 chips in the SB. Action folds around to the button who raises to 600. You look down at KJ in the SB. You know the button could be just trying to steal here with a huge range...but there's always a chance of him having a decent hand. What you do know is that if you shove here preflop, you're going to get called nearly all of the time. So instead of shoving just call the 600 raise leaving 600 in front of you. Regardless of the flop, you shove. If the flop comes something like Q 9 5, and the button raised with something like A8, KJ, or even 88 77 66 89 etc...the button will have a tough decision to make. He's getting around a 2:1 odds to call, but he could believe that you could very well have a Q, 9, better pocket pair, etc and decide to fold. Thus you win a nice pot with a hand which probably would have lost had you just shoved PF.

That's all a stop and go does, create some extra fold equity. In this example, even if you're called on the flop you could have a backdoor flush draw and a gutshot straight draw...maybe a K could save the day or a runner runner J. So even if you're called here, you're not dead in the water. You would have been called PF anyway! It doesn't work all the time of course, but there's a time and place for it. Definitely a move to put in your poker toolbox.

can someone recommend a book they read that explains all this stuff and it was actually good, would like to get one but want a good one, to learn more about this stuff you guys talk about cause a lot of it TBH . any input appreciated.

[k13]

Despite getting fuked constantly I still have more poker badges than most people here including yourself.

Yeah but they are all like 10th place finishes.....

[moses millsap]

Not every min-raise is bad for you lol:

***** Hand history (v1.2) *****
Hand ID 2053401
$0 + $11 Texas Hold'em (No Limit) - 10:37:27 17/07/2012 ET
Table 'Table 32644', 10 seats max, Real money
Seat 6 is the button. Small Blind $75, Big Blind $150
Note: seat IDs range from 1 to 10
Seat 1 (playing) : sweep, amount $3135, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 2 (playing) : dankelly, amount $2245, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 3 (vacant) : wtt0315, amount $0, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 4 (playing) : smoke, amount $2643, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 5 (playing) : Czu81, amount $1174, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 6 (playing) : no1here, amount $1640, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 7 (playing) : milwaukee_mike, amount $3128, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 9 (playing) : mosesmillsap, amount $2944, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 10 (playing) : emily_haines, amount $1145, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
milwaukee_mike: Small Blind ($75)
mosesmillsap: Big Blind ($150)
** Dealing Down Cards **
Dealt to mosesmillsap: [Qs, As]
emily_haines: Raise. ($300)
sweep: Fold. ($0)
dankelly: Fold. ($0)
smoke: Fold.. ($0)
Czu81: Fold.. ($0)
no1here: Fold. ($0)
milwaukee_mike: Fold. ($0)
mosesmillsap: Raise. ($1125)
emily_haines: Raise. ($1145)
mosesmillsap: Call. ($20)
mosesmillsap: Show Cards ($0)
emily_haines: Show Cards ($0)
** Dealing Flop **
Community cards: [4h, 3h, 4d]
** Dealing Turn **
Community cards: [5h]
** Dealing River **
Community cards: [Kd]
** End Round **
** Evaluate **
mosesmillsap: Show Cards ($0)
emily_haines: Show Cards ($0)
** Showdown **
Main pot $2365, Rake $0
Summary mosesmillsap: bet $1295, won $0, net $-1295, HoleCards [Qs, As]
Summary emily_haines: bet $1445, won $2365, net $920, HoleCards [Th, 9h], HiHand [a flush, ten high] [Th, 9h, 5h, 4h, 3h], won $2365 from main pot

[Emily_Haines]

Not every min-raise is bad for you lol:

***** Hand history (v1.2) *****
Hand ID 2053401
$0 + $11 Texas Hold'em (No Limit) - 10:37:27 17/07/2012 ET
Table 'Table 32644', 10 seats max, Real money
Seat 6 is the button. Small Blind $75, Big Blind $150
Note: seat IDs range from 1 to 10
Seat 1 (playing) : sweep, amount $3135, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 2 (playing) : dankelly, amount $2245, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 3 (vacant) : wtt0315, amount $0, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 4 (playing) : smoke, amount $2643, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 5 (playing) : Czu81, amount $1174, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 6 (playing) : no1here, amount $1640, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 7 (playing) : milwaukee_mike, amount $3128, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 9 (playing) : mosesmillsap, amount $2944, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 10 (playing) : emily_haines, amount $1145, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
milwaukee_mike: Small Blind ($75)
mosesmillsap: Big Blind ($150)
** Dealing Down Cards **
Dealt to mosesmillsap: [Qs, As]
emily_haines: Raise. ($300)
sweep: Fold. ($0)
dankelly: Fold. ($0)
smoke: Fold.. ($0)
Czu81: Fold.. ($0)
no1here: Fold. ($0)
milwaukee_mike: Fold. ($0)
mosesmillsap: Raise. ($1125)
emily_haines: Raise. ($1145)
mosesmillsap: Call. ($20)
mosesmillsap: Show Cards ($0)
emily_haines: Show Cards ($0)
** Dealing Flop **
Community cards: [4h, 3h, 4d]
** Dealing Turn **
Community cards: [5h]
** Dealing River **
Community cards: [Kd]
** End Round **
** Evaluate **
mosesmillsap: Show Cards ($0)
emily_haines: Show Cards ($0)
** Showdown **
Main pot $2365, Rake $0
Summary mosesmillsap: bet $1295, won $0, net $-1295, HoleCards [Qs, As]
Summary emily_haines: bet $1445, won $2365, net $920, HoleCards [Th, 9h], HiHand [a flush, ten high] [Th, 9h, 5h, 4h, 3h], won $2365 from main pot

yeah, losing as a 3-2 favorite is such a bad beat

and compares so much to someone losing as a 5-1 favorite

[moses millsap]

Not saying it was a bad beat, just a funny hand to me. Of the hands I'm going to shove into you there, AQ is pretty close to the bottom of my range. I don't whine about bad beats, pretty sure most in this thread I've played against the most on here can confirm that.

[nomeansno]

just found this thread pure gold lol

emily you never cease to amaze.. for someone who allegedly played a mirrion hands live you`re still horrible.

my advice to you is that instead of making 5 threads a day about bad beats and how sbr is rigged, you should invest that time into trying to improve your game and correct obvious mistakes

[Emily_Haines]

just found this thread pure gold lol

emily you never cease to amaze.. for someone who allegedly played a mirrion hands live you`re still horrible.

my advice to you is that instead of making 5 threads a day about bad beats and how sbr is rigged, you should invest that time into trying to improve your game and correct obvious mistakes

yeah i'm horrible all right

one of the few people on this board that can make a living gambling

and you know what idiot. i still got more poker badges than you.

maybe it is the clowns like you that should be looking to improve their game instead of coming into my threads and saying i suck because i get it all in with 80% equity almost every time and barely win half of them.

[downsouth]

I am curious what is the logic behind the min raise for over a quarter of your stack from first position with a 10 9 and then insta calling when someone pushes. Is there some theory im missing here.

Is there some new book out im missing where passive, weak has gone back into the playbook.

[Emily_Haines]

I am curious what is the logic behind the min raise for over a quarter of your stack from first position with a 10 9 and then insta calling when someone pushes. Is there some theory im missing here.

Is there some new book out im missing where passive, weak has gone back into the playbook.

WTF are you talking about passive weak? Should I play the hand like everyone else where they just limp in UTG? I min raise with the intention that I will play the hand for all my money if I have too pre flop. If someone just calls and I hit any pair or a draw then I move all in on the flop other wise check fold if I completely miss.

[downsouth]

Its a min raise, for a quarter of your stack from UTG. You still have enough to find a much better spot than committing yourself UTG with 10-9.

You use min raise entirely too much with a variety of mediocre to weak hands in awful position. Its like you skipped the entire chapter on anything position related. For somebody who has played millions of hands its amazing that you still fail to grasp some of the more basic concepts.

[nomeansno]

did you look at your stacksize vs the size of the blind before playing the hand?

[daneblazer]

i still got more poker badges than you.

I still find this as an amusing argument. I'm pretty sure most of SBR has more badges than me...yet if I could take most of SBR and play them in a game of 2/5 for a few months, I'd probably have enough money to live off of for the next 20 years.

Just my opinion, but if you min raise UTG, fine...but what are you expecting to beat there with that call? 10-8? 89? 10 7? It's understandable you're about to pass through the blinds again and it's time to make a move, but imo it's either shove or fold. This hand is completely different from the min raise A9s hand earlier btw. Even if you can try to justify the call by talking yourself into thinking he could have a pocket pair or unsuited over cards and you are a 60/40 dog, there's something to be said about tournament survival. The gap concept and the ICM come into play here more than whether or not you should raise and/or call. Again, just my opinion.

Now, I have to quit talking about poker before I want to start playing it again.

[daneblazer]

RIP the good ole days

[BiTeMe UsAdOj]

Hey stevay... like Emily, we both have more poker badges than dane

WE WIN!

[bobbywaves]

I still have more poker badges than most people here including yourself.

[Hotspur]

This thread reminds me of my favourite ever line from a movie -

"Badges!? We don't need no stinking badges!"


The Treasure of the Sierra Madre

[bobbywaves]

This thread reminds me of my favourite ever line from a movie -

"Badges!? We don't need no stinking badges!"


The Treasure of the Sierra Madre

Donkey has only posted this clip 10 times at least:

[sweethook]

love you em . but the more you play the more you get this ,... so take a break . have a drink . brown licker works