[grease lightnin]

Now it is okay since another billionaire FINALLY SAID It isn't fair, while the middle class is getting clobbered. YOU CAN'T MAKE THIS FUKIN SHIT UP.

Warren Buffett has been saying it for years.

[DwightShrute]

90% of Fox viewership is 70 years old and above. These are the people voting them in. They are brainwashed.
I know, my parents watch that shit. They never used to talk the way they do now after watching that shit.

wrong. again. (heavy sigh)





Live + Same Day Cable News Daily Ratings for Wednesday, August 26, 2015

Total Day		P2+ (000s)	25-54 (000s)	35-64 (000s)
FOXN		1,409	299	535
CNN		586	208	311
MSNBC		443	86	184
CNBC		258	84	114
FBN		79	14	28
HLN		280	121	158
Primetime		P2+ (000s)	25-54 (000s)	35-64 (000s)
FOXN		2,595	626	1,026
CNN		736	292	421
MSNBC		849	155	370
CNBC		545	206	197
FBN		44	5	20
HLN		358	136	170
Net	Morning programs (6-9 AM)	P2+ (000s)	25-54 (000s)	35-64 (000s)
FOXN	FOX AND FRIENDS	899	175	383
CNN	NEW DAY	324	110	171
MSNBC	MORNING JOE	457	95	210
CNBC	SQUAWK BOX	193	63	121
HLN	MORNING EXPRESS W/ MEADE	260	81	152
Net	5PM	P2+ (000s)	25-54 (000s)	35-64 (000s)
FOXN	FIVE, THE	2,305	363	735
CNN	SITUATION ROOM	769	244	374
MSNB	MSNBC LIVE	440	70	143
CNBC	FAST MONEY	224	35	112
HLN	FORENSIC FILES	118	53	56
Net	6PM	P2+ (000s)	25-54 (000s)	35-64 (000s)
FOXN	SPECIAL RPT W/BRET BAIER	2,129	315	657
CNN	SITUATION ROOM	699	287	382
MSNB	POLITICS NATION	536	87	219
CNBC	MAD MONEY	235	51	120
HLN	FORENSIC FILES	195	102	103
Net	7PM	P2+ (000s)	25-54 (000s)	35-64 (000s)
FOXN	ON THE RECORD W/GRETA	1,771	352	619
CNN	ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT	813	339	446
MSNB	HARDBALL WITH C. MATTHEWS	790	112	308
CNBC	CNBC SPECIAL REPORT	183	36	93
HLN	FORENSIC FILES	220	76	73
Net	8PM	P2+ (000s)	25-54 (000s)	35-64 (000s)
FOXN	THE OREILLY FACTOR	3,120	634	1,110
CNN	ANDERSON COOPER 360	851	353	480
MSNB	ALL IN W/ CHRIS HAYES	706	136	317
CNBC	SHARK TANK	491	143	138
HLN	NANCY GRACE	345	114	150
Net	9PM	P2+ (000s)	25-54 (000s)	35-64 (000s)
FOXN	KELLY FILE, THE	2,705	678	1,101
CNN	CNN TONIGHT	738	292	428
MSNB	RACHEL MADDOW SHOW	1,059	187	454
CNBC	SHARK TANK	801	316	316
HLN	DR DREW	329	109	140
Net	10PM	P2+ (000s)	25-54 (000s)	35-64 (000s)
FOXN	HANNITY	1,957	565	865
CNN	CNN TONIGHT	618	231	354
MSNB	LAST WORD W/ L. ODONNELL	783	142	337
CNBC	MAKE ME A MLLNRE INVENTOR	344	160	138
HLN	FORENSIC FILES	399	186	219
Net	11PM	P2+ (000s)	25-54 (000s)	35-64 (000s)
FOXN	THE OREILLY FACTOR	1,248	350	584
CNN	ANDERSON COOPER 360	538	188	315
MSNB	ALL IN W/ CHRIS HAYES	403	88	165
CNBC	SHARK TANK	340	178	122
HLN	FORENSIC FILES	454	176	209

--Nielsen TV Ratings Data: ©2015 The Nielsen Company. All Rights Reserved.
P2+ = viewers over the age of 2-
(25-54) = Adults 25-54 viewing
(35-64) = Adults 35-64 viewing
Prime Time = 8-11pm



.


.
.

.




so who's brainwashed? LOL

[brooks85]

lol I knew he was wrong the moment I read it, you can never trust him with numbers. He just wings shit and hopes it sticks.


He said more people were on SSDI than Welfare... he wasn't that far off... only 11x more people on welfare lol!

[DwightShrute]

how can you not like this guy?

[Thor4140]

Warren Buffett has been saying it for years.

i meant a rich Republican. Buffett always had a lean left. He wasn't "one of them" When BUffet said the rich should pay more these asshats heard Fix news say "Warren is allowed to pay as much as he wants and nobody is stopping him" These assholes all bought that talking point helping to further their cause of sticking up for billionaires because they were being treated unfairly lol. These 40 thousand dollar a year Republicans who think some day they are gonna be as rich as Trump or Buffet. They are just ignorant simpleminded jerkoffs who flat out kill the country because they are to stupid to realize when they are being played. That is the big problem in this country. Really not the billionaires at all. They just found a huge group of simpletons to puppet around like clowns. Der gonna take away ur guns so vote for my billionaire interest. Der gonna kill babies on street corners so vote for my billionaire interest. Der are weapons of mass destruction so help us rob the country while sending ur kids to die like a good jackass would. Watch out for blackie and the rotten Mexicans they are coming to rob u blind. Vote for my billionaire interest. Those dirty unions. They are trying to make a wage to hurt my billionaire wage even thou budgets were surpluses when unions were strong (people who could actually buy something which in fact creates jobs). Help us rid of those dirty unions. Please help us u useless pieces of brainwashed shit.

[Jeffie]

i meant a rich Republican. Buffett always had a lean left. He wasn't "one of them" When BUffet said the rich should pay more these asshats heard Fix news say "Warren is allowed to pay as much as he wants and nobody is stopping him" These assholes all bought that talking point helping to further their cause of sticking up for billionaires because they were being treated unfairly lol. These 40 thousand dollar a year Republicans who think some day they are gonna be as rich as Trump or Buffet. They are just ignorant simpleminded jerkoffs who flat out kill the country because they are to stupid to realize when they are being played. That is the big problem in this country. Really not the billionaires at all. They just found a huge group of simpletons to puppet around like clowns. Der gonna take away ur guns so vote for my billionaire interest. Der gonna kill babies on street corners so vote for my billionaire interest. Der are weapons of mass destruction so help us rob the country while sending ur kids to die like a good jackass would. Watch out for blackie and the rotten Mexicans they are coming to rob u blind. Vote for my billionaire interest. Those dirty unions. They are trying to make a wage to hurt my billionaire wage even thou budgets were surpluses when unions were strong (people who could actually buy something which in fact creates jobs). Help us rid of those dirty unions. Please help us u useless pieces of brainwashed shit.

Your democratic welfare ass probably voted Obama. Congrats you helped fuk up the country.

[Ballerholic]

lets go donald

[magyarsvensk]

likewise, it is sheep.

easier to call you an idiot than to actually correct you like I usually do. We both know your ego will ignore the facts which is why you said the majority of stuff in your post in the first place lol... You're too dumb to even realize it is the most amusing part about you.


And don't give me that name calling bs, calling you an idiot is not name calling. It is simply using the English language correctly.

Wow, that sound reasoning really got to you, didn't it?

[rkelly110]

90% of Fox viewership is 70 years old and above. These are the people voting them in. They are brainwashed.
I know, my parents watch that shit. They never used to talk the way they do now after watching that shit.

Ok, my bad. It's O Reilly who has those numbers.

http://www.politicususa.com/2014/05/...p-program.html

According to the numbers less than fifteen percent of O’Reilly’s audience fell within the key 25-54 demographic, and the average age of O’Reilly audience was 72 years old.

[brooks85]

Wow, that sound reasoning really got to you, didn't it?

something like that....*crickets*

[The Kraken]

Your democratic welfare ass probably voted Obama. Congrats you helped fuk up the country.

The US is better off today than we've ever been. The elites in this country, primarily through racism, have divided this country down the political lines. There is still work to be done but extremists on both sides tend to see the sky as falling.

The reality is, the reason there aren't full fledged riots going on is because life is pretty fawking good in America right now.

That doesn't mean easy street, it doesn't mean we have things to work on like scrapping the tax, hiking taxes on corporations and the rich, more racial awareness, etc... But were better off today than any other point in history.

And don't give me the argument that rich people will leave if we hike taxes and they'll bring their businesses overseas with them, because they've been doing that for the better part of the last 3 decade anyways.

Big corps are always gonna look to increase profit margins. The number one way to this is to lower wages paid out. The easiest way to do this is to ship all your jobs to China and pay a little Chinese girl $3/day to do the same job as an American that would get paid 2-10 times more.

And yet we still have guys ardently defending corporations as job providers as if they have your best interest at heart. You're only good them as long as there is regulation or you are your production level is so high that it justifies your wages conpared to the chinese girl.

[brooks85]

The US is better off today than we've ever been. .

lol couldn't get past this joke

man this guy isn't very smart but I've already shown that many times.

Ok, my bad. It's O Reilly who has those numbers.

http://www.politicususa.com/2014/05/...p-program.html

According to the numbers less than fifteen percent of O’Reilly’s audience fell within the key 25-54 demographic, and the average age of O’Reilly audience was 72 years old.

now if you were just this reasonable more often we wouldn't butt heads so much. I told ya before, all you have to do is be logical, not spew nonsense and we won't have a problem. So no more saying there is more people on ssdi than welfare, and no more saying slaves came here illegally(lol that is was fukn hilarious though, I'll give ya that. Got a bunch of laughs out of it).

[The Kraken]

Brooks i know, you still think the world you grew up in was the best. Everyone does at some point, it's a childs mentality. The difference is, most of us eventually recognize it and adjust. You obviously haven't.

[grease lightnin]

Kraken if he lives in rural Ohio as was suggested yesterday, then all of the jobs that were once there are gone and almost all people who live in these areas are completely defeated. Hell, even people who live in cities but once had these jobs or families had these jobs are like this. Bunch a negative Nancys.

[Mr KLC]

Brooks i know, you still think the world you grew up in was the best. Everyone does at some point, it's a childs mentality. The difference is, most of us eventually recognize it and adjust. You obviously haven't.

I have to go with Brooks on this one. I've lived through 5 decades, and this one is FAR from the best one.

[grease lightnin]

I have to go with Brooks on this one. I've lived through 5 decades, and this one is FAR from the best one.

Why?

[Mr KLC]

Why?

Optimism and unity are awful. Reminds me so much of the late 70's. Obama can talk a good game, but he can't inspire a nation like Clinton and Reagan did. Those guys could work with their congresses even though they were on the other side of the political spectrum. All Obama can do is blame, whine, and cry. A true leader goes beyond that, and finds a way to communicate, and work things out. Obama just hardlines, and if Congress pushes the least bit, he cries to the public blaming all those mean Republicans. The funny thing is that the Republicans, as a whole, are a bunch of wusses. He wanted the fukking job as president. Get in there and be a damn leader instead of a finger pointer! Clinton worked with a tough, conservative Congress. Reagan worked with Tip O'Neil, enough said. I think its just a part of this era. Not as many people are willing to take personal responsibility any more. Its just so much easier, to blame someone else, and whine until you get what you want, or just be a victim. When the leader of the free world does it, then a lot of the minions think it is OK also.

[brooks85]

Kraken if he lives in rural Ohio as was suggested yesterday, then all of the jobs that were once there are gone and almost all people who live in these areas are completely defeated. Hell, even people who live in cities but once had these jobs or families had these jobs are like this. Bunch a negative Nancys.

again, you're just showing how truly ignorant you are just like last night when you made it very clear. It is a theme for you. I live right above one of the top 10 cities rated best for business in America and one of the richest counties in the country. Yes, it is terrible... lol

[rkelly110]

Optimism and unity are awful. Reminds me so much of the late 70's. Obama can talk a good game, but he can't inspire a nation like Clinton and Reagan did. Those guys could work with their congresses even though they were on the other side of the political spectrum. All Obama can do is blame, whine, and cry. A true leader goes beyond that, and finds a way to communicate, and work things out. Obama just hardlines, and if Congress pushes the least bit, he cries to the public blaming all those mean Republicans. The funny thing is that the Republicans, as a whole, are a bunch of wusses. He wanted the fukking job as president. Get in there and be a damn leader instead of a finger pointer! Clinton worked with a tough, conservative Congress. Reagan worked with Tip O'Neil, enough said. I think its just a part of this era. Not as many people are willing to take personal responsibility any more. Its just so much easier, to blame someone else, and whine until you get what you want, or just be a victim. When the leader of the free world does it, then a lot of the minions think it is OK also.

Depends on what your definition of a leader is.

Most Repubs want a leader who doesn't take shit, makes hard line decisions on a whim and talks caveman. That's
why Trump is doing so well.

Obama is a leader also. He has taken us where no man has gone before. He had the balls to give us healthcare,
lifted a 50 year embargo with Cuba, given gays the right to marry and initiated an Iran deal. Not only has the US
benefited, so has the world.

Sure he's blamed his predecessor and a do nothing congress. He's for progress. They stifle that. It has to be
frustrating for him, being ridiculed at every turn.

A leader has to have vision, a thought process and the balls to change. Both Obama and Trump have that.
Doing the same thing and expecting a different result is the definition of idiocy.

[Mr KLC]

Depends on what your definition of a leader is.

Most Repubs want a leader who doesn't take shit, makes hard line decisions on a whim and talks caveman. That's
why Trump is doing so well.

Obama is a leader also. He has taken us where no man has gone before. He had the balls to give us healthcare,
lifted a 50 year embargo with Cuba, given gays the right to marry and initiated an Iran deal. Not only has the US
benefited, so has the world.

Sure he's blamed his predecessor and a do nothing congress. He's for progress. They stifle that. It has to be
frustrating for him, being ridiculed at every turn.

A leader has to have vision, a thought process and the balls to change. Both Obama and Trump have that.
Doing the same thing and expecting a different result is the definition of idiocy.

Health care would not have been passed unless he had the majority in Congress. Didn't take any leadership to do that. Supreme Court made the decision on gays and marriage. Anyone could have "initiated" an Iran deal. He doesn't look like too much of a leader on how Iran seems to have fleeced him. As far as Cuba goes, hey, we can get those cigars now legally.

[Thor4140]

Your democratic welfare ass probably voted Obama. Congrats you helped fuk up the country.

u are one of the dim bulbs i have been talking about. "Obama has ruin the country" Now im sure u are a two time Bush voter who thinks this. JUst a country killing backwards asshat who gets played like a fiddle over and over again.

[grease lightnin]

again, you're just showing how truly ignorant you are just like last night when you made it very clear. It is a theme for you. I live right above one of the top 10 cities rated best for business in America and one of the richest counties in the country. Yes, it is terrible... lol

What are you bitching about then? Go get that money. "The country is going to hell", in one breath and in the next, "I live in one of the wealthiest counties in the country and have huge opportunity for business"

Which is it?

[Thor4140]

Can someone please post that picture of the billionaire and the hick with the hick carrying the billionaires bags i believe.

[grease lightnin]

Optimism and unity are awful. Reminds me so much of the late 70's. Obama can talk a good game, but he can't inspire a nation like Clinton and Reagan did. Those guys could work with their congresses even though they were on the other side of the political spectrum. All Obama can do is blame, whine, and cry. A true leader goes beyond that, and finds a way to communicate, and work things out. Obama just hardlines, and if Congress pushes the least bit, he cries to the public blaming all those mean Republicans. The funny thing is that the Republicans, as a whole, are a bunch of wusses. He wanted the fukking job as president. Get in there and be a damn leader instead of a finger pointer! Clinton worked with a tough, conservative Congress. Reagan worked with Tip O'Neil, enough said. I think its just a part of this era. Not as many people are willing to take personal responsibility any more. Its just so much easier, to blame someone else, and whine until you get what you want, or just be a victim. When the leader of the free world does it, then a lot of the minions think it is OK also.

I think kraken meant that people's lives are better off. Partisan folks will always be happy when their party is in office, and pissed when they aren't.

[The Kraken]

Health care would not have been passed unless he had the majority in Congress. Didn't take any leadership to do that. Supreme Court made the decision on gays and marriage. Anyone could have "initiated" an Iran deal. He doesn't look like too much of a leader on how Iran seems to have fleeced him. As far as Cuba goes, hey, we can get those cigars now legally.

You, like many other conservatives, just automatically discredit anything Obama does. It's instinctual at this point. No thought goes into it. Just anti- anything Obama related.

And that's certainly fine. But I will disagree with you on many points about Obama not being a great leader. Has he been the most effective president? Probably not. Part of that can be attributed to a Congress that wouldn't compromise with him. It happens. Sometimes, for whatever reasons, logical or illogical, people don't click. Obama hasn't clicked with a lot of people, particularly middle aged and older white, male Americans ie Congress. Those are just the facts. But he has been extremely effective nonetheless.

He has been an amazing leader for minorities. He has fought for their causes. He continues to bring to the forefront the struggles they face. We've had president after president ignore their struggles as if they don't have rights as well. The old saying "majority rules, minority rights" seems to have stopped after the "majority rules" for so many administrations.

He's also been an amazing leader for the underserved in our society, not just minorities. Great leaders have vision. The ACA was his vision, so yes, that is an example of his leadership. Conservative estimates show that over 16 million Americans went from uninsured to insured directly related to the ACA. That's incredible.

Great leaders don't always have to serve the establishment, or the middle aged/older white male. Remember, this is new territory for us. We've always been catered to by leaders that served our needs, looked just like us, that we can relate to. Obama is different, his effectiveness is measured differently and that makes a lot people mad.

Anyone could have initiated the Iran deal, but no one else did. Anyone could have given the order to take out OBL, but no one else did. Anyone could have fought for gay marriage equality, but no one else did. Here we are in 2015 and plenty of other leaders before Obama could have done these things, but no one else did. So yes, by all accounts, he has been unequivocally a great leader.

[The Kraken]

I think kraken meant that people's lives are better off. Partisan folks will always be happy when their party is in office, and pissed when they aren't.

This is a great point. And one not to be forgotten.

[Mr KLC]

I think kraken meant that people's lives are better off. Partisan folks will always be happy when their party is in office, and pissed when they aren't.

I don't believe people feel like they are better off, and if they do, a lot of that might feed into the "new normal" thinking that people had in the 70's. If people were so much more better off, there wouldn't be as much public assistance being shelled out. We wouldn't also hear the whining about begging the government to raise the minimum wage, and the class envy about 1%er's. Didn't have nearly as much of that in the 80's. Reagan got government out of the way, and Carter's term became a distant memory by the time Reagan was running for reelection.

[The Kraken]

I don't believe people feel like they are better off, and if they do, a lot of that might feed into the "new normal" thinking that people had in the 70's. If people were so much more better off, there wouldn't be as much public assistance being shelled out. We wouldn't also hear the whining about begging the government to raise the minimum wage, and the class envy about 1%er's. Didn't have nearly as much of that in the 80's. Reagan got government out of the way, and Carter's term became a distant memory by the time Reagan was running for reelection.

We hear a lot more of everything these days KLC. You hear about CEO's make $25,000,000- $150,000,000 yearly, while the average employee working for them makes between $22,000-$50,000 yearly. You hear about how the 1% has sucked up all the wealth in this country since the crash in 2009. In fact, 95% of all income gains since the market crash have went to the top one percent of earners. If you aren't part of that class, why represent them at the polls? It's ludicrous man.

Like it or not, you're a hell of a lot closer to the reality many poor black Americans and illegal immigrants face, than you are to the top one percent of earners. You're in the same boat as 99% of America. We are all going to benefit greatly from having SS available to us, having medicare, etc.... We're all going to benefit from these "welfare programs", otherwise known as a defined contribution.

A good reality check is needed for the vast majority of white Americans. We're in the same boat as the poor black mamma raising 9 kids. We're no where near the boat of the elites. And that's just a hard reality for a majority to accept.

We always want to see ourselves as the rich white guy, so we identify with them, even though they don't represent us at all and their is no way to serve both sides concurrently. Yet when middle class white Americans go to the poll, they'll vote for the billionaire trump, or the hundred millionaire Clinton. Common people, wake up.

[Mr KLC]

You, like many other conservatives, just automatically discredit anything Obama does. It's instinctual at this point. No thought goes into it. Just anti- anything Obama related.

And that's certainly fine. But I will disagree with you on many points about Obama not being a great leader. Has he been the most effective president? Probably not. Part of that can be attributed to a Congress that wouldn't compromise with him. It happens. Sometimes, for whatever reasons, logical or illogical, people don't click. Obama hasn't clicked with a lot of people, particularly middle aged and older white, male Americans ie Congress. Those are just the facts. But he has been extremely effective nonetheless.

He has been an amazing leader for minorities. He has fought for their causes. He continues to bring to the forefront the struggles they face. We've had president after president ignore their struggles as if they don't have rights as well. The old saying "majority rules, minority rights" seems to have stopped after the "majority rules" for so many administrations.

He's also been an amazing leader for the underserved in our society, not just minorities. Great leaders have vision. The ACA was his vision, so yes, that is an example of his leadership. Conservative estimates show that over 16 million Americans went from uninsured to insured directly related to the ACA. That's incredible.

Great leaders don't always have to serve the establishment, or the middle aged/older white male. Remember, this is new territory for us. We've always been catered to by leaders that served our needs, looked just like us, that we can relate to. Obama is different, his effectiveness is measured differently and that makes a lot people mad.

Anyone could have initiated the Iran deal, but no one else did. Anyone could have given the order to take out OBL, but no one else did. Anyone could have fought for gay marriage equality, but no one else did. Here we are in 2015 and plenty of other leaders before Obama could have done these things, but no one else did. So yes, by all accounts, he has been unequivocally a great leader.

You say he has done a lot for black people, but what has he done? More of them are out of work since he took office last time I checked. The ACA was a liberal vision since Hillary in 1993. He just followed through with it. Again, it was easy to get passed because he had a super majority in Congress, and even then, he had a hard time getting it through, having to make special deals. He lost his majorities in Congress after that because he couldn't convince the American people it was the right thing to do. Also, how many people lost their health coverage after it was passed? How many people lost their full time jobs? How many people are going to lose a big chunk of their tax returns in the next year or two because they don't want health coverage?

Ever think there is a reason why other leaders never "negotiated" with Iran? OBL eventually would have been caught. In the 21st century, you can't hide forever. I'll give him credit that it happened on his watch, but any leader in the free world after 9/11 would love to have been the man to take him down. Again, it doesn't matter how much he "fought" for gay marriage, because that was ultimately the Supreme Court's decision. That is, of course, you are implying that he stiff armed the court.

[KVB]

...Great leaders have vision. The ACA was his vision, so yes, that is an example of his leadership. Conservative estimates show that over 16 million Americans went from uninsured to insured directly related to the ACA. That's incredible...

This is simply not true.

In 1993 Clinton’s administration proposed a bill for health care reform. It was similar to today’s ACA, only big insurance fought what they saw as too much regulation on their premiums.

A solution to require people to purchase insurance by law, with other regulations, was essentially a plan designed by the Heritage Foundation.

That’s a right wing think tank, if you didn’t know.

The ACA enacted during Obama’s administration is basically the same as the program designed by the Heritage Foundation in the 1990’s.

Healthcare reform has been on the table for years and Obama and a vision truly has little to do with it. He’s just the sitting president while it was enacted.

It seems giving credit to Obama and his vision for ACA is yet another act of low information voters.

For campaign purposes, it would be in the best interest of the Democratic Party to continue to cite successes with the Healthcare Act and give the sitting president all the credit.

[Mr KLC]

We hear a lot more of everything these days KLC. You hear about CEO's make $25,000,000- $150,000,000 yearly, while the average employee working for them makes between $22,000-$50,000 yearly. You hear about how the 1% has sucked up all the wealth in this country since the crash in 2009. In fact, 95% of all income gains since the market crash have went to the top one percent of earners. If you aren't part of that class, why represent them at the polls? It's ludicrous man.

Like it or not, you're a hell of a lot closer to the reality many poor black Americans and illegal immigrants face, than you are to the top one percent of earners. You're in the same boat as 99% of America. We are all going to benefit greatly from having SS available to us, having medicare, etc.... We're all going to benefit from these "welfare programs", otherwise known as a defined contribution.

A good reality check is needed for the vast majority of white Americans. We're in the same boat as the poor black mamma raising 9 kids. We're no where near the boat of the elites. And that's just a hard reality for a majority to accept.

We always want to see ourselves as the rich white guy, so we identify with them, even though they don't represent us at all and their is no way to serve both sides concurrently. Yet when middle class white Americans go to the poll, they'll vote for the billionaire trump, or the hundred millionaire Clinton. Common people, wake up.

I hate to tell you my friend, pretty much anyone you vote for is going to represent the rich guy no matter who you vote for. That's why Trump resonates with so many people. He is exposing the elephant in the room, and that's what makes him so popular, and teflonish. No one else can truly bring up politicians being bought off unless they are a 1%er themselves. Perot did the same thing in 1992, and might have pulled it off if it wasn't for the NAACP fiasco. I'm open to the possibility of an outsider from inside Washington running things. Just glad I have another 6 months before I have to choose.

[The Kraken]

Clinton may have had his own vision for health care reform, as did Mit Romney, but it wasn't this vision. Maybe similar, but this is certainly Obamas vision. Point taken though and thank you for the correction, there were others before Obama that have fought for healthcare reform, and this goes for all levels of government.

But, Clinton wasn't unable to get it passed. Obama was. I tend to give a lot more credit to the sitting president that got it done than you might. When 9/11 happened on Bushs watch, that was his burden to carry. ACA is Obamas to own, good or bad. If it fails, everyone will blame Obama, not anyone before him that attempted their own version of reform.

Much like the head coach of a program, if it happens on their watch, good or bad, the credit and blame sits with them.

[The Kraken]

I hate to tell you my friend, pretty much anyone you vote for is going to represent the rich guy no matter who you vote for. That's why Trump resonates with so many people. He is exposing the elephant in the room, and that's what makes him so popular, and teflonish. No one else can truly bring up politicians being bought off unless they are a 1%er themselves. Perot did the same thing in 1992, and might have pulled it off if it wasn't for the NAACP fiasco. I'm open to the possibility of an outsider from inside Washington running things. Just glad I have another 6 months before I have to choose.

I disagree, but I understand. I would probably vote for Trump over Hilary, not 100% sure but I think I would. But I don't believe it's true no candidates would represent us. Bernie Sanders is one of the poorest presidential candidates in some time. His entire platform is fighting big corporations and building the middle class.

There's certainly debate to be had on whether or not he could be effective in doing so, but I believe he would represent me and my needs better than any other candidate.

[DwightShrute]

Depends on what your definition of a leader is.

Most Repubs want a leader who doesn't take shit, makes hard line decisions on a whim and talks caveman. That's
why Trump is doing so well.

Obama is a leader also. He has taken us where no man has gone before. He had the balls to give us healthcare,
lifted a 50 year embargo with Cuba, given gays the right to marry and initiated an Iran deal. Not only has the US
benefited, so has the world.

Sure he's blamed his predecessor and a do nothing congress. He's for progress. They stifle that. It has to be
frustrating for him, being ridiculed at every turn.

A leader has to have vision, a thought process and the balls to change. Both Obama and Trump have that.
Doing the same thing and expecting a different result is the definition of idiocy.

Most PEOPLE want a leader. Whatever form it comes in. For me, he can be a dem or rep. Obama has failed in the leadership department. Huge.

He didn't give the right for gays to marry. The Supreme Court did. Obama was against gay marriage but evolved just in time for the 2012 election.

He had to bribe democrat senators to get enough votes to pass the Obamacare to begin with and then everyone else could actually read it lol. Great leader huh? No a real leader would have worked with both sides to come up with a healthcare plan that the other side isn't always threatening to repeal. He's had 7 years to do that. Massive failure.

The Embargo with Cuba hasn't been lifted as of yet. But I agree, that is probably his biggest accomplishment when it's official. And it will happen. His legacy. Because of Cuba, he might now go down as the worst president in US history. He might be the 2nd or 3rd worst only.

[The Kraken]

"Bribing" senators is what leadership is all about. Every great president has done it.

You're obviously correct about the SC giving gays the right to marry. I had mentioned in another post that obama fought for gay marriage equality, that's ehat I should've said.

Obama did put two of those justices in power to make that decision. Again, another sign of leadership. Put smart, good people in power around you to make you look good. No one can do anything alone. Even Jordan had Pippen and PJ