1. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chi_archie View Post
    McVP getting ready for the derby!
    derby may be one of those things that screws with a youngsters swing.. wouldnt that be terrible (sarcasm from a cards fan,lol)..

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2daBank View Post
    derby may be one of those things that screws with a youngsters swing.. wouldnt that be terrible (sarcasm from a cards fan,lol)..
    NL Central is a 2 team race anyway. Never thought I'd say that and not be talking about the Brewers, Astros, Cubs, or Cardinals.

  3. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by PickWinnerAllDay View Post
    Best formula is Phillies... build half, acquire half.
    then what?

    shouldn't they be blowing it up now?

  4. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chi_archie View Post
    then what?

    shouldn't they be blowing it up now?
    Yeah, might be blow up time for the Phillies, but they won a championship and probably *should* have won at least one more. That is all you can ask for if you're not the Yankees... 3-4 years where you are legit WS contenders.

  5. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by PickWinnerAllDay View Post
    Yeah, might be blow up time for the Phillies, but they won a championship and probably *should* have won at least one more. That is all you can ask for if you're not the Yankees... 3-4 years where you are legit WS contenders.

    I think Pirates could be on verge of doing it almost soley from within, with no need to buy 50% of their team.

    they have a 5+ year window where they could compete every year for a WS if they stay healthy. starting in 2014 (this year and next are just pre-icing on the cake)

    Bucs might aquire some bats/arms in july of each year but i don't think they'll have to. same goes for other teams like KC building from within. as long as owners stick to promises. nutting/pirates already has started..

  6. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chi_archie View Post
    I think Pirates could be on verge of doing it almost soley from within, with no need to buy 50% of their team.

    they have a 5+ year window where they could compete every year for a WS if they stay healthy. starting in 2014 (this year and next are just pre-icing on the cake)

    Bucs might aquire some bats/arms in july of each year but i don't think they'll have to. same goes for other teams like KC building from within. as long as owners stick to promises. nutting/pirates already has started..
    Pirates don't have the starting pitching. Who is going to be an ace in the playoffs for them? McDonald? It is a bit of a stretch. I think they'd be wise to trade for Dempster/Hamels/Garza someone like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PickWinnerAllDay View Post
    NL Central is a 2 team race anyway. Never thought I'd say that and not be talking about the Brewers, Astros, Cubs, or Cardinals.
    you are smoking crack if you are excluding stl from the nl central race....3 teams by my count...pit, cincy , stl...or are you saying pit not in it?

  8. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2daBank View Post
    you are smoking crack if you are excluding stl from the nl central race....3 teams by my count...pit, cincy , stl...or are you saying pit not in it?
    Cards are a non factor... Reds/Pirates both significantly better. Reds will win it, they haven't even played their best baseball yet.

  9. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by PickWinnerAllDay View Post
    Cards are a non factor... Reds/Pirates both significantly better. Reds will win it, they haven't even played their best baseball yet.
    With no closer and Dusty as their manager?

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    Quote Originally Posted by No coincidences View Post
    With no closer and Dusty as their manager?
    They just need to win the NL Central, not the AL East.

  11. #46
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    picker! notice I said 2014..

    bucs have 3 stud arms in the farm that project as aces...

    plus ten other guys that project as decent starting pitchers

  12. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chi_archie View Post
    picker! notice I said 2014..

    bucs have 3 stud arms in the farm that project as aces...

    plus ten other guys that project as decent starting pitchers
    Projections are fun but I want to see them pitch for a year or so before I would declare them MLB playoffs ready. Starlin Castro projected as a hall of famer after his rookie season. That isn't working out so well for us into year 3. So even major league projections are shit sometimes.

  13. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chi_archie View Post
    picker! notice I said 2014..

    bucs have 3 stud arms in the farm that project as aces...

    plus ten other guys that project as decent starting pitchers
    Again, it's the exact recipe the Marlins used to win multiple world titles.

    Load up your farm system with stud players -- and more importantly, pitchers -- who want to win and have a lot to prove before signing huge guaranteed contracts. Sprinkle a few seasoned vets in there who have been there before. Just out-work and out-scout the other organizations who go for big-name bats and huge contracts. Pick their farm systems as well with trades when you have a kid mature into a great hitter who's lined up for big money.

    It's not rocket science.
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  14. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by No coincidences View Post
    Again, it's the exact recipe the Marlins used to win multiple world titles.

    Load up your farm system with stud players -- and more importantly, pitchers -- who want to win and have a lot to prove before signing huge guaranteed contracts. Sprinkle a few seasoned vets in there who have been there before. Just out-work the other organizations who go for big-name bats and huge contracts.

    It's not rocket science.
    The Marlins' 2nd championship was thanks to Alex S. Gonzalez... was he a part of this plan?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PickWinnerAllDay View Post
    Projections are fun but I want to see them pitch for a year or so before I would declare them MLB playoffs ready. Starlin Castro projected as a hall of famer after his rookie season. That isn't working out so well for us into year 3. So even major league projections are shit sometimes.
    LOL! By who outside of the circle jerk of ignorant Cub fans?

  16. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by PickWinnerAllDay View Post
    The Marlins' 2nd championship was thanks to Alex S. Gonzalez... was he a part of this plan?
    Bottom line: the Marlins had winners and the Cubs didn't.

  17. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by No coincidences View Post
    Bottom line: the Marlins had winners and the Cubs didn't.
    Nothing is that simple. Alex S. Gonzalez is a loser and Dusty Baker compounded on it.

  18. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by No coincidences View Post
    LOL! By who outside of the circle jerk of ignorant Cub fans?
    Well, the list of guys who did what Castro did at 20 all ended up in the hall of fame. That is what projections mean.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PickWinnerAllDay View Post
    Well, the list of guys who did what Castro did at 20 all ended up in the hall of fame. That is what projections mean.
    That's a pretty big leap given the sample size. I've never once heard anything about Castro and the Hall of Fame, but I'm also not around Cub fans every day.

  20. #55
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    its not rocket science. but scouting and even computer statistical ranking of pre-draft prospects and international fa's is not easy and its a bit science,art, and luck.

    Pirates have been whiffing on high first round picks with a few exceptions until recent years.

    and then once you have them. developing prospects is another complex science/art

  21. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by No coincidences View Post
    That's a pretty big leap given the sample size. I've never once heard anything about Castro and the Hall of Fame, but I'm also not around Cub fans every day.
    I probably judge Castro more harshly than analysts in all honesty. Castro was on pretty much everyone's top 5 players to start a franchise with under 25.

    I don't even think he'd make my list... I want smart players, not head cases that are projects. So suggesting Cubs fans are delusional about their own players regarding Castro seems like a dumb argument.

  22. #57
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    yeah show me one article outside of chicago from respected pub. talking HOF

    is castro still an immense talent? hell yes. and i'd put $ on him being an all-star over 10.5 times in his career

  23. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by PickWinnerAllDay View Post
    I probably judge Castro more harshly than analysts in all honesty. Castro was on pretty much everyone's top 5 players to start a franchise with under 25.

    I don't even think he'd make my list... I want smart players, not head cases that are projects. So suggesting Cubs fans are delusional about their own players regarding Castro seems like a dumb argument.

    its a long term thing that you are looking at under a microscope. and letting fan expectations infect. cub fans are way over emotional. for good reason.

  24. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by No coincidences View Post
    That's a pretty big leap given the sample size. I've never once heard anything about Castro and the Hall of Fame, but I'm also not around Cub fans every day.
    <big>User's Notes:
    </big>
    Rk Player BA H From To Age G PA AB R 2B 3B HR RBI BB IBB SO HBP SH SF GDP SB CS OBP SLG OPS Pos Tm
    1 Arky Vaughan .322 524 1932 1934 20-22 430 1870 1628 271 85 40 25 252 197 87 13 32 12 23 .399 .469 .869 *6 PIT
    2 Alex Rodriguez .313 648 1994 1998 18-22 513 2271 2070 383 135 11 106 352 154 2 386 19 15 13 41 97 25 .364 .543 .906 *6/D SEA
    3 Dick Bartell .308 407 1927 1930 19-22 345 1486 1320 197 80 30 7 168 102 81 13 55 23 .364 .430 .794 *64/5 PIT
    4 Rogers Hornsby .307 457 1915 1918 19-22 417 1666 1491 205 62 43 19 195 127 146 11 37 42 2 .365 .444 .809 *6/53984 STL
    5 Starlin Castro .304 438 2010 2012 20-22 357 1542 1443 179 77 21 19 146 72 9 221 10 4 13 40 48 25 .338 .426 .764 *6 CHC


    Spanning Multiple Seasons or entire Careers, From 1901 to 2012, Younger than 22, Played 50% of games at SS, (requiring H≥400 and batting_avg≥.300), sorted by greatest Batting Average: Results


  25. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chi_archie View Post
    yeah show me one article outside of chicago from respected pub. talking HOF

    is castro still an immense talent? hell yes. and i'd put $ on him being an all-star over 10.5 times in his career
    See my previous post. This wasn't just a mindless thing... it was comparing stats with other players in history at certain ages. Like I've said a million times on this forum probably, I think Castro is a loser and is worth more in a trade than he will EVER amount to... but the stats don't really lie that he is projected for a huge career.

  26. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chi_archie View Post
    yeah show me one article outside of chicago from respected pub. talking HOF

    is castro still an immense talent? hell yes. and i'd put $ on him being an all-star over 10.5 times in his career
    He's very talented. That goes without saying.

    Upstairs, he's Andruw Jones.

  27. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by PickWinnerAllDay View Post
    User's Notes:
    Rk Player BA H From To Age G PA AB R 2B 3B HR RBI BB IBB SO HBP SH SF GDP SB CS OBP SLG OPS Pos Tm
    1 Arky Vaughan .322 524 1932 1934 20-22 430 1870 1628 271 85 40 25 252 197 87 13 32 12 23 .399 .469 .869 *6 PIT
    2 Alex Rodriguez .313 648 1994 1998 18-22 513 2271 2070 383 135 11 106 352 154 2 386 19 15 13 41 97 25 .364 .543 .906 *6/D SEA
    3 Dick Bartell .308 407 1927 1930 19-22 345 1486 1320 197 80 30 7 168 102 81 13 55 23 .364 .430 .794 *64/5 PIT
    4 Rogers Hornsby .307 457 1915 1918 19-22 417 1666 1491 205 62 43 19 195 127 146 11 37 42 2 .365 .444 .809 *6/53984 STL
    5 Starlin Castro .304 438 2010 2012 20-22 357 1542 1443 179 77 21 19 146 72 9 221 10 4 13 40 48 25 .338 .426 .764 *6 CHC


    Spanning Multiple Seasons or entire Careers, From 1901 to 2012, Younger than 22, Played 50% of games at SS, (requiring H≥400 and batting_avg≥.300), sorted by greatest Batting Average: Results
    I'm not questioning the numbers -- I'm questioning the conclusion that somehow what a kid does in his first 1,500 at-bats before he's barely old enough to drink a beer should be a true read on whether or not he's destined for greatness.

  28. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by PickWinnerAllDay View Post
    Cards are a non factor... Reds/Pirates both significantly better. Reds will win it, they haven't even played their best baseball yet.
    you are comical...cards have best bats by far in division..

  29. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chi_archie View Post
    its a long term thing that you are looking at under a microscope. and letting fan expectations infect. cub fans are way over emotional. for good reason.
    They aren't just overemotional -- they're stupid. That's not to say Picker is, but as a fanbase, it's collectively the dumbest ballpark I've ever visited. I've been to Wrigley seven times and I've been to games in at least a dozen other MLB cities. The Cubs are the Clippers. Fans don't really give a shit about the results on the field -- it's more about "being there" than winning.

  30. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2daBank View Post
    you are comical...cards have best bats by far in division..
    Yeah, but Matheny makes a lot of stupid mistakes and Duncan isn't there anymore....

  31. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by No coincidences View Post
    I'm not questioning the numbers -- I'm questioning the conclusion that somehow what a kid does in his first 1,500 at-bats before he's barely old enough to drink a beer should be a true read on whether or not he's destined for greatness.
    If Castro had a mind like Derek Jeter, he'd probably be the best SS to ever play the game. But we can play that game with lots of different situations. Castro's bat speed and ability to hit anything the pitcher throws up there is off the charts.

    Castro actually has it made currently, there aren't that many decent SS in the NL... He might end up being a double digit hall of famer even if he doesn't improve very much if he stays at SS. If Castro plays into his mid 30s, he'll probably rack up 3000 hits and then have those 10 all star selections and that makes him an automatic hall of famer. That is the general point.

  32. #67
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    Castro is a unique player... never misses games, never takes walks, hits for a good average. Add in that he started his career so young and he is a lock to get to 3000 hits unless he has serious injury problems.

  33. #68
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    many chapters left to be written about Castro, hopefully penned by castro. at his age now, mccutchen was just getting a call up. and he didn't get really goo till like may of this year. after a few months people are falling all over themselves to suick his kok.

    Starlin has alot of time to develop on his side.

    and if you are a cub fan you kinda want it to take awhile, so his peak coincides with theo's rebuilding plan and allows the cubs to extend castro to a reasonable contract like the pirates did with AM this offseason

  34. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by PickWinnerAllDay View Post
    Castro is a unique player... never misses games, never takes walks, hits for a good average. Add in that he started his career so young and he is a lock to get to 3000 hits unless he has serious injury problems.
    Wow -- I don't know about that one.

  35. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chi_archie View Post
    many chapters left to be written about Castro, hopefully penned by castro. at his age now, mccutchen was just getting a call up. and he didn't get really goo till like may of this year. after a few months people are falling all over themselves to suick his kok.

    Starlin has alot of time to develop on his side.

    and if you are a cub fan you kinda want it to take awhile, so his peak coincides with theo's rebuilding plan and allows the cubs to extend castro to a reasonable contract like the pirates did with AM this offseason
    Definitely true. I just see regression with his plate discipline which is troubling. Rudy Jaramillo is a dumbass so maybe get a decent hitting coach in there after this season and maybe we will see some progress.

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