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Looking for lesser known UK horseracing online bookies
None of the leading bookies will accept any business from me on UK horses.
I'm hoping to find one or two bookies who will:
a) accept Australian clients
b) offer Best Odds Guarantee
c) take a reasonable sized wager and not impose absurd limits after a few wins
d) accept deposits via Skrill
Hopefully someone here can give me some guidance?
i heard all uk bookies will cut ur limits if u win $275
ok, let me put up a couple of names: Geoff Banks, Jenningsbet
any feedback on those will be appreciated
Been some comments about Jenningsbet.
Think they bought out Premierbet and another UK bookmaker a couple of years ago.
A few threads about them
http://www.sportsbookreview.com/foru...38bet-com.html
http://www.sportsbookreview.com/foru...e-traders.html
http://www.sportsbookreview.com/foru...tabase-uk.html
thanks mateOriginally Posted by Optional
seems 138bet may also worth looking into
I was with 10Bet but in the end it became a waste of effort so maybe it will be the same story with these.
So, after looking around for bookies which offer what I was after I finally proceeded to open new accounts with two.
1. Jenningsbet
It's now a week since I sent them the ID stuff they asked for but despite follow up emails I have still to hear back from them about it.
I have a rule to never make an initial deposit until I've received confirmation that all is well in regard to ID requirements. I've read far too many stories in this forum about how players have been given the run-around when requesting withdrawals.
2. Geoff Banks
On opening the account I promptly received a welcome email and I attended to their ID requirements which was also promptly acknowledged with confirmation.
The welcome email included this line: "A bet placed after 11 AM will entitle you to best odds guaranteed (BOG) offer."
Normally I'd prefer to bet earlier than that, particularly in the northern winter because that's quite late for me in Australia when daylight saving time kicks in.
But at least I had found a bookie offering what I was after and willing to take a bet for more than a handful of peanuts.
So I proceeded to make a deposit and made my first bet on a horse at 5/2.
It won. SP 11/4.
But when I checked my account I found that they'd paid me at 5/2 rather than at 11/4.
On enquiring about it I was informed that they don't and never have offered BOG!
After 36 hours I'm still awaiting for an explanation as to why I was advised in my welcome email that they do.
Needless to say, my regard for the UK bookmaking industry hasn't been improved one iota by these experiences.
Sounds like shoddy maintenance of their standard emails with Geoff Banks.
Just FYI... seen several complaints where people ask to have ID approved before betting, only to have more extensive KYC conducted when they withdraw.
Don't take being approved once as a guarantee they wont ask again.
I do understand that Optional but at least it puts me in a stronger arguing and naming-and-shaming position if they do pull such a stunt.
I use Betdaq quite a lot, they're well renowned for their Horse Racing.
They run an exchange rather than a standard betting firm, so you can get really great odds. I've never had a problem with Customer Service and they pay out within 24 hours.
"Dear Visitor
Due to legal and regulatory restrictions, we are currently prohibited from offering the Betdaq site and services to your jurisdiction."
I do use Betfair but I generally prefer to get BOG if possible.
And now Matchbook is another exchange alternative, currently with 0% commission.
Many of the UK horses I back SP at better odds than they are in the early market.
I can't stay up all night to monitor markets. I need to get my bets on and then wake up to (hopefully) the good news!
Last edited by Hareeba!; 07-14-16 at 07:15 PM.
Hareeba, one of your original requirements was that the bookmaker accepts Skrill, so does Geoff Banks accept Skrill as from what I've seen they only accept debit card and bank transfer?
If they say they have never offered Best Odds Guaranteed, that's a lie. It must have only been 3 months or so ago I looked at the site and it mentioned Best Odds Guaranteed after 11am so they must have very slyly taken that away very recently. Geoff Banks is on Twitter daily going on about his great member offers but he certainly hasn't mentioned BOG being taken away in any of his tweets.
He does actively speak to his customers on Twitter so if you get nowhere with your current enquiries, message him on https://twitter.com/geoffbanksbet and he'll probably reply to you.
Jenningsbet approved ID within hours with me so strange they are taking so long. In my experience, their live chat is very helpful so I would suggest to have a go at them on there and they should sort it out.
I personally never actively send ID to a bookmaker and always wait for them to ask me for it as in my view, this would give the bookmaker the impression that you are more than a recreational. From the bookmaker's point of view, if they see a customer go out of their way to actively send ID to a bookmaker to get their account verified, the bookmaker is probably going to think that this customer is an organised person that has been through this process many times and more than your run of the mill mug punter so in my view, this sort of behaviour would get your card marked as a serious/sharp punter straight off the bat and your road to limitsville will probably take significantly less time.
I'm surprised that none of the Australian books will cater for you on the UK nags. What about Topsport, Bluebet and Madbookie? I heard that at least them three out of the Australian bookies will take good bets and not limit you?
In terms of any UK or European bookies that will take good sized horse racing bets at good prices and not limit you quickly, once they work out you're not a mug, you've got no chance. That is the case generally on all sports with UK and European bookies but the limits will come even faster on horse racing than on other sports. I'm talking bet 4-5 shorteners on the horses with any bookie that you would have looked at, and 9 times out of 10 you'll be shown the door straight away. That's the unfortunate state of the "bookmaking" industry in 2016.
No they don't offer Skrill. Skrill was a wish list item but I had to use a debit card.
I also thought I'd seen BOG offered on his website that's why I took an interest in the first place but it's not there now.
"Let’s keep things nice and simple- We don’t advertise BOG – anywhere. Nobody told you we offer this concession. My customers enjoy a weekly bonus which is unique in the industry. They also get a fair bet. Also unique
It’s therefore a waste of your time to rant on about something we’ve never offered, as if you have been in any way misled. If you want to view what we offer- refer to the website which hasn’t changed in terms of terms and conditions for over a year. Please don’t waste your time, or mine, on long essays debating the issue.
You’ve had two good bets, made a profit. You’ve nothing as far as betting to complain about. As to board prices, where we offer BOG – please see this link.
http://www.betting-explained.com/live-shows-board-prices/ "
Best wishes
Geoff Banks
I appreciate your comments. You're probably correct. But I've seen too many reports of players being stuffed about and I just don't want to get into that sort of mess.
It's been a long time since I looked at any of these for UK racing but I honestly don't think they offer on run of the mill meetings. And if they do I doubt their odds would be good enough to get me involved.
What I like to do is set limit odds and if I find them I want to take BOG so that if they drift I still get a good price. None of the Aussie based books (bar Bet365) offer BOG. And well, Bet$3.65 says enough!
My next best option is to post a bid on Betfair at SP. But that fails if there's a late scratching (something all too common in UK) and I'm sleeping rather than reducing my asking odds and the bloody thing wins without be having 1c on it!
As well I know!
And it's now no different in Oz since the Pommie bookie invasion stuffed the industry here. We need a Brexit!
Last edited by Hareeba!; 07-14-16 at 07:59 PM.
At least Banks has replied to you in person as that e-mail certainly looks like it was written by Banks rather than one of his team given the tone of the e-mail. Just try getting Fred Done or Denise Coates to e-mail you in person about a dispute so at least he is prepared to face the music.
He's not quite true when he says he doesn't advertise BOG as it does mention BOG on http://www.geoff-banks.com/about.asp but then straight after it points you to the current offers page where BOG is now not mentioned so he'll just about get away with it on that front.
His terms and conditions definitely have changed in the last 12 months, even in the last couple of months he has pulled a couple of his promotions so again he isn't correct on that.
The only thing you might get him on is him saying "nobody told you we offer this concession". From what you said your welcome e-mail specifically detailed this offer being available and unless you since received an e-mail saying it isn't available, you might have a case there although they may just be able to get away with saying the offer wasn't listed in their terms and conditions on the website when you registered and claiming an admin error with them not amending their welcome e-mail. I also have the feeling that IBAS would rule with the bookmaker on those grounds as from what you hear they are very much a stickler for what the terms and conditions on the website say and don't generally take anything else into account.
It may still be worth a try at IBAS or maybe try to get SBR to talk Banks round to settle the bet at the SP as a goodwill gesture for the poor service with their welcome e-mail giving wrong information, but by the sounds of his e-mail he doesn't seem to be in the mood for doing that.
Last edited by luctens; 07-14-16 at 08:42 PM.
I do appreciate all that Luctens but for the quarter of a point variation between the odds I took and the SP it's just not worthwhile turning into any sort of formal appeal.
I'd be quite prepared to forfeit that small change for the chance to use BOG into the future but alas it seems Geoff Banks isn't going to let me do that.
If he does respond to my question about the email reference to BOG I'll let you know.
In the meantime, my search for a suitable replacement goes on!
wrong thread!
Last edited by Hareeba!; 07-14-16 at 11:49 PM.
My advice? Dont waste your time
All UK bookies will put severe limits on you if it looks like you know what you're doing
Maybe Sunbets will be the one when they launch before the next football season.
I expect they will wimp out like all the rest, even they are promising great things.
We can but hope but Sun Bets main target audience will be the type of punter that reads The Sun newspaper and they aren't going to be the smartest bettors around so I think this will most probably be just another bookmaker only looking for mugs.
Have you looked at RealDealBet and NetBet?
No but will check them out thank you!
RealDealBet directed me to BetRally which appears to be 10Bet?
I was able to login using my 10Bet name and password!
NetBet looks so much like 10Bet. Perhaps the same group?
I opened an account (as yet unfunded) and checked their bet limits.
Looks like they will start by limiting me to win up to 250 GBP.
May be worth a tryout but will probably end up the same as 10Bet with peanut limits.
Update on the Geoff Banks saga:
After days of refusing to respond to my emails I threatened him with a referral to IBAS over not paying BOG on the winner I backed purely as a point of principle.
That did elicit a response from him!
Lots of rubbish in it but whilst he said IBAS would not uphold my appeal he wanted to avoid the time and cost of it so agreed to top up my payout to BOG as long as I then let the issue drop.
That's as much as I could have expected from IBAS so I've accepted his offer.
That's pretty good.
I do agree with him that IBAS probably would not rule that an email offer had precedence over the published site terms. But it was the right thing to do if they forgot to update their welcome emails.
Books who make rulings to be fair rather than just based on the letter of the rules give me more confidence in them too.
Actually I disagree with you on that point.
An offer in a specifically addressed email should take precedence over standard offers on a website.
Real Deal Bet is a sister book of 10Bet. I was aware of Betrally but I wasn't aware there was any connection between Betrally and 10Bet/Real Deal Bet but I suppose there must be a connection as you've been able to login to Betrally with your 10Bet login details.
It could be that Betrally is another sister book of 10Bet and maybe Real Deal Bet don't accept Australians but Betrally do therefore any Australians coming onto Real Deal Bet automatically get redirected to Betrally? It may be something completely different but that is my best educated guess. You're best to contact both Real Deal Bet and Betrally to clarify the situation.
Netbet isn't part of 10Bet or anything, they are completely separate. The similarity is that Netbet and 10Bet both use SBTech white label software.
Netbet can have horse racing limits up to £1000-£1500 if it is a high profile meeting, their limits usually rise the closer you get to the start of a race and there is an option to ask for a higher bet which goes to their traders. You'll probably end up getting limited pretty sharpish once they work out you're not a mug but they are a reputable company that will pay so it's worth trying them and seeing how long you last.
I agree that their e-mail should take precedence over their terms but if you've ever had significant dealings with IBAS you would probably come to a different conclusion as to what their actual ruling would have been. They absolutely rigidly stick to what the bookmakers terms and conditions say and even if there has been significant poor customer service or other mitigating factors, they almost always just go on what the bookmaker terms and conditions state and don't take anything else into account.
Credit to Banks though. As I said I don't think IBAS would have ruled against him so there was nothing forcing him to pay, but he has been reasonable and whilst he wouldn't admit it, him paying the additional amount is tantamount to him agreeing that the service that he always says he prides himself on wasn't up to scratch, so he's done the decent thing by settling up.
Yes it would have been interesting to see what IBAS would have determined.
In my one prior experience with them what you say proved totally correct. They initially sided with the bookie but when I appealed and drew their attention to the fact that the bookie had referred them to a clause in their conditions which didn't fit the particulars of the event whereas the clause I directed them to did they reversed their decision.
In this case I can find nothing on Banks' site which says they don't pay BOG or even refers to BOG at all.
A Google search finds pages which says they do. In fact in Banks' latest email to me and a previous response from one of his staff both refer to circumstances in which BOG is paid.
All highly contradictory when I look at an earlier response from Geoff in which he says they've never offered BOG!
With all that I would have been quite confident of winning at IBAS based on my in good faith acceptance of the offer outlined in their welcome email.
I agree that the argument has merit ethically. I've even made it myself when Crownbet created another account from my Betfair info and sent me an offer I deposited for, only to be told it wasnt meant for me. They did honour it and then delete the second account.
And agree that IBAS should look at these sort of issues more pragmatically. Just would have been surprised if they did. Most complaints about email offers relate to existing customers being sent bonus offers that are not honoured though. A welcome email received before depositing (?) might have got a bit more interest from them I guess.
If you wanted to find any evidence of Banks advertising BOG in the past, you'd only have to go a while back in his Twitter feed and you'd find him going on about it on a daily basis. I don't know why he wouldn't simply be upfront and say that he used to offer BOG and for whatever reason now he doesn't.
All of what you say is very reasonable and if IBAS used any common sense and discretion when making their decisions then they would rule in your favour for the reasons you've described but that's just not the way they work.
It wouldn't even need to specifically state on the Geoff Banks site that they don't offer BOG, just them deleting the info from their site from when they previously offered BOG and therefore not mentioning BOG in their terms at the time you signed up, that would be enough for IBAS to rule in their favour regardless of any e-mails that Banks has sent you mentioning BOG.
Weird thing is BetRally doesn't do horseracing!
Betrally doesn't accept UK customers which is probably the main market where UK horse racing betting is aimed at so that's probably why they don't have horse racing. Betrally may just be a sister site of 10Bet that only concentrates on customers from selected countries outside of the UK.
It's good to see them coming into racing but at this stage there is just no liquidity early in the day when I want to bet (I haven't had an opportunity to observe close to race times). And they don't have an equivalent to Betfair's SP.
Seems like they haven't got it all operational as yet. But this 0% commission bonus for July should help get some interest rolling.
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