[str]

Str, I have a question and was hoping you could shed a light and help a little.. When it comes to race class, how much of a difference is each restriction worth? Say I rate $20, claiming ( no conditions ) race at a 80 par.. How much less would a N1x be worth? Would it be the same amount all down the tier of races? I hope I'm explaining this correctly.. Say for instance,

1) $20,
2) $20, n1x
3) $20, n2l
4) $20, n1y
5) $20, n$y
6) $20, n1m
7) $20, n$my
8) b

If I give (1) a par of 80, and say you think a (2) should be 2-4 pts less, would I go down the line subtracting 3 for each until I reached the b race which would then be a 56? I honestly don't know how to adjust.. I realize that a lot of it depends on the track and that is (so far) a fairly easy adjustment.. Thank you

You are correct that every track can be different. That is why playing many different tracks at once puts you behind some other players in terms of overall knowledge. It is a great question . Here goes:

I just deleted what I wrote.

I need more info.

I assume these conditions read out with the "OR" between the 20 and the condition.


Not sure what n1m is (non winners of 1 at a mile or over or month?? What is it.

Same goes for #7. Help me out with those.

Same with #8. Is that beaten? And beaten for 3 months, 6 m or 12m? Big difference so let me know that as well.

Also, are the races you present 20k OR n1y? The OR is HUGE in reading conditions. Help clarify that as well please.
This also has to do with age. A 4 and up n1x is less then 20k open all day long.

A 3 year old n1x could have a champion in it so usually it is much better.

Sex does not matter as to what I explained.

I'll wait for more info.

[str]

I kind of felt that way also..no humanity at all in himtowards the horses..got to be a little more balanced than that and if that's the way you really feel tone it down a bit for the interview..outside of being a bit cold and callous get the feeling on the business side he knew what he was doing

From a pure business aspect, I'm sure he did.

In many cases with a claiming stable, the trainers that can read the condition books the best, usually do the best.

[JBEX]

already got my next question lined up for you but gonna wait till next week..space them out a bit

[JBEX]

str if you aren't aware tony dutrow has the favorite in the risen star stakes at FG.. looks good.. also always forget to tell you joe rocco jr one of the leading jocks at oaklawn this meet

[str]

str if you aren't aware tony dutrow has the favorite in the risen star stakes at FG.. looks good.. also always forget to tell you joe rocco jr one of the leading jocks at oaklawn this meet

I know but thanks for the heads up. I talked to him briefly this morning to wish him luck.

Glad to hear Joe jr, is back. He was hurt from a spill several months ago.

I talked to his dad back in august or Sept. I'm sure we will catch up again soon.

Thanks again JBEX.

Sometimes I miss stuff like that these days.

[JBEX]

]I know but thanks for the heads up. I talked to him briefly this morning to wish him luck.
[/B]
Glad to hear Joe jr, is back. He was hurt from a spill several months ago.

I talked to his dad back in august or Sept. I'm sure we will catch up again soon.

Thanks again JBEX.

Sometimes I miss stuff like that these days.

uncle mo out of a bernardini mare ..nice bloodlines..be rooting for him !!

[Buckandadime]

You are correct that every track can be different. That is why playing many different tracks at once puts you behind some other players in terms of overall knowledge. It is a great question . Here goes:

I just deleted what I wrote.

I need more info.

I assume these conditions read out with the "OR" between the 20 and the condition.


Not sure what n1m is (non winners of 1 at a mile or over or month?? What is it.

Same goes for #7. Help me out with those.

Same with #8. Is that beaten? And beaten for 3 months, 6 m or 12m? Big difference so let me know that as well.

Also, are the races you present 20k OR n1y? The OR is HUGE in reading conditions. Help clarify that as well please.
This also has to do with age. A 4 and up n1x is less then 20k open all day long.

A 3 year old n1x could have a champion in it so usually it is much better.

Sex does not matter as to what I explained.

I'll wait for more info.

Sir you are a wealth of information and I thank you for taking the time.. I'm sorry I came in with sub info.. It appears that I don't know the classes of races as well as I thought.. N1m is at a mile and over.. #7 would be non winners of a certain amount at a mile and over for a specific period of time.. "B" races are from what i underatand, beaten clm.. I dont get that..if you have the time sometime may I ask that you list the most frequently ran class of races? Rather than every class run.. I was told early on in my handicapping the class of race and conditions of that race should be the very first thing you look at in handicapping.. I've failed at that, not looking at the conditions only the purse and type(mdn, com, etc..).. What I'm hoping to change in my par # is not give every $20, claiming race (or other price and class) the same par #.. I know its not right I'm just not sure how to go about adjusting the correct way..

[str]

Sir you are a wealth of information and I thank you for taking the time.. I'm sorry I came in with sub info.. It appears that I don't know the classes of races as well as I thought.. N1m is at a mile and over.. #7 would be non winners of a certain amount at a mile and over for a specific period of time.. "B" races are from what i underatand, beaten clm.. I dont get that..if you have the time sometime may I ask that you list the most frequently ran class of races? Rather than every class run.. I was told early on in my handicapping the class of race and conditions of that race should be the very first thing you look at in handicapping.. I've failed at that, not looking at the conditions only the purse and type(mdn, com, etc..).. What I'm hoping to change in my par # is not give every $20, claiming race (or other price and class) the same par #.. I know its not right I'm just not sure how to go about adjusting the correct way..

Sure. No problem.

Rather than worry about each track, here is a run down off the top of my head of various conditions. There are a ton of them so let's just scratch the surface.

Maidens:
The lower the claiming price, the cheaper the race.

MSW Maiden special Weight. No claim price. This category is typically anywhere from 5-6 to 10-12 lengths better than the highest claiming price offered at that particular track. ( Very rule of thumb, but you get my drift).

Claiming:

NW/2 lifetime. Simply put, they have only broken their maiden. Again, the cheaper the price, the cheaper the horse.

NW/3 lifetime. Same as above.

NW/2 6months. ( or less). Careful here. A MUCH better horse than others can be in here. Important to review each horse carefully.

NW/ year. Condition says a lot. Just as the condition above, if the horse is dropping from open claiming into one of these NW races and the rest of the field is already trying to win this and can't, the drop in is probably the favorite and at least several lengths better going in. That doesn't mean they win. Current condition , race set up, etc. can still get them beat but they are the horse to beat in most cases.

Open claiming . Usually a solid group of horses.

Allowance:

NW/2 Weakest of allowance races.

NW/3 next step up the ladder.

a other than. Usually has a chance to be at least several lengths tougher because open claimers can be eligible. Just have to check.

2 other than. Same thing but next step up.

3other than. This is what separates ok horses from good horses . There are many a 2 other than that tried and never could win a 3 other than. It is starting to get tough now.

4 other than. Tougher still.

NW in a year, or money allowance. These are VERY tricky for a novice trying to learn. Remember, a horse could have won a Breeders cup race last year, took the winter off, and this is where they land to start the new year. This condition can be murder. Be careful.

When in doubt, look at the purse for these races relative to other purses at the same track. As the races get tougher, the idea iss to make the purses higher. Don't get confused with state bred purses. They can be higher but typically a state bred restricted race will be a weaker race than a non state bred race of equal price or condition. Depending where, 3-5 lengths or even 6-8 lengths. Again, depends where. You will figure it out. Let the results over time tell you how many lengths the difference is.

You can compare purses from track to track but again, that can sometimes confuse you, so go slowly with these types of races until you have seen more and have a better feel.

I know this thread is a monster to try and read through but I urge you to try and do so. You can skip the talk about jocks or people or whatever and focus on this type of stuff. I am sure that I have talked about this stuff before, probably a few years ago by now, but do check this whole mess of a thread out.

I think you will find certain posts that will REALLY help you understand why things happen that you see when watching a race. Write down the post number of the ones that you will want to reread of reference.

Everything happens out there for a reason and understanding WHY something happened puts you well above many playing the same game.

Feel free to follow up or ask anything but do try and read the prior stuff. It will answer questions that you have not gotten to yet but will soon enough.

I love your passion to learn.

Hang on to that.

It will serve you well in this game.

Don't lose much money learning but do have fun with it.

Work hard and it will pay off.

And ask away as you go.

But please try and read through this mess.

I think you will be glad you did.

[Buckandadime]

Thank you very much str.. I did you a disservice by not reading through this in the first place.. I will do that... In your opinion is a MSW drop to claiming the biggest class drop? I mean aside from the obvious, say a $50, allowance drop into $16, claiming but then you have to wonder if something is wrong with the horse..

[JBEX]

OK .these weren't the two questions I mentioned I'd ask a few days ago but something I snoticed today at parx..making his fourth career start today (nothing to do most likely with my question) 2 starts back comment .."outrun,bled cut mouth" ..last start "stumble;cut mouth".
just don't remember chart callers noticing that before?

other question..kiaran mclaughlin has a 175k 3yo making 4th career start ..off slow in november but closed to 4th in afield of 12..2 months off and 22 days between starts
at aqueduct (2nd and 3rd starts)..ships to parx and another 22 days between last and today's race...you think to the day just a coincidence or he was thinking along those lines..understand exactly multiple of 7 for big horses who run saturday's but this I found intriguing..don't care about today just in general

[str]

Thank you very much str.. I did you a disservice by not reading through this in the first place.. I will do that... In your opinion is a MSW drop to claiming the biggest class drop? I mean aside from the obvious, say a $50, allowance drop into $16, claiming but then you have to wonder if something is wrong with the horse..

Keeping it simple, yes, dropping from MSW to a md. claiming price is the largest drop WITHIN maidens. Don't try and mix maidens with winners. It just muddies the waters.
Any winner from any category can drop to any level any time so it is impossible to find a ceiling in which to compare to.

Hope that makes sense.

[JBEX]

two questions posted in the same minute.. amazing!

[str]

OK .these weren't the two questions I mentioned I'd ask a few days ago but something I snoticed today at parx..making his fourth career start today (nothing to do most likely with my question) 2 starts back comment .."outrun,bled cut mouth" ..last start "stumble;cut mouth".
just don't remember chart callers noticing that before?

other question..kiaran mclaughlin has a 175k 3yo making 4th career start ..off slow in november but closed to 4th in afield of 12..2 months off and 22 days between starts
at aqueduct (2nd and 3rd starts)..ships to parx and another 22 days between last and today's race...you think to the day just a coincidence or he was thinking along those lines..understand exactly multiple of 7 for big horses who run saturday's but this I found intriguing..don't care about today just in general

Q. these weren't the two questions I mentioned I'd ask a few days ago but something I snoticed today at parx..making his fourth career start today (nothing to do most likely with my question) 2 starts back comment .."outrun,bled cut mouth" ..last start "stumble;cut mouth".
just don't remember chart callers noticing that before?

A. I have seen that plenty of times before. I think what you have is an astute chart caller that sees things. Nice to see.

As for the bleeding. Do not be confused as this is NOT "bleeding" in the terms of using lasix. It has nothing to do with that. The horse most likely smashed it's mouth into the steel doors in the gate or bit it's tongue. If you smash your lip, mouth or tongue it bleeds like crazy for a few minutes. Same with horses. Then run 25 miles per hour and it's all over the place.
The horse could also have very sharp teeth ( code for a not so talented trainer) and needs some dental work. An easy fix. No clue if that applies. Hope that is not unfair.).
If anything, the horse could improve some if they straighten out whatever is going on but doubt it is enough of an improvement to rely on unless the horse just got best.

Q. other question..kiaran mclaughlin has a 175k 3yo making 4th career start ..off slow in november but closed to 4th in afield of 12..2 months off and 22 days between starts
at aqueduct (2nd and 3rd starts)..ships to parx and another 22 days between last and today's race...you think to the day just a coincidence or he was thinking along those lines..understand exactly multiple of 7 for big horses who run saturday's but this I found intriguing..don't care about today just in general.


A. Haha. You know I say it is rarely a coincidence at the track but in this case, it is. He is picking up condition books and the spacing is similar, or exact. But he has no control over that. He is just ready to run the horse back when the appropriate race comes up and it happens to hit exactly the same. Might even had been an extra that was carried over a day or two so total coincidence to the exact day, not a coincidence to the exact week or 10 day period.

Great questions.

I have to think they help others as well as these particular circumstances.

And of course, it goes without saying... Love Whiteley back in the day.

Thinking about changing my avatar.

Hate to because the current one is Larry Saumell winning number 8 in a row but have a couple others in mind.

What do you think?

[JBEX]

Q. these weren't the two questions I mentioned I'd ask a few days ago but something I snoticed today at parx..making his fourth career start today (nothing to do most likely with my question) 2 starts back comment .."outrun,bled cut mouth" ..last start "stumble;cut mouth".
just don't remember chart callers noticing that before?

A. I have seen that plenty of times before. I think what you have is an astute chart caller that sees things. Nice to see.

As for the bleeding. Do not be confused as this is NOT "bleeding" in the terms of using lasix. It has nothing to do with that. The horse most likely smashed it's mouth into the steel doors in the gate or bit it's tongue. If you smash your lip, mouth or tongue it bleeds like crazy for a few minutes. Same with horses. Then run 25 miles per hour and it's all over the place.
The horse could also have very sharp teeth ( code for a not so talented trainer) and needs some dental work. An easy fix. No clue if that applies. Hope that is not unfair.).
If anything, the horse could improve some if they straighten out whatever is going on but doubt it is enough of an improvement to rely on unless the horse just got best.

Q. other question..kiaran mclaughlin has a 175k 3yo making 4th career start ..off slow in november but closed to 4th in afield of 12..2 months off and 22 days between starts
at aqueduct (2nd and 3rd starts)..ships to parx and another 22 days between last and today's race...you think to the day just a coincidence or he was thinking along those lines..understand exactly multiple of 7 for big horses who run saturday's but this I found intriguing..don't care about today just in general.


A. Haha. You know I say it is rarely a coincidence at the track but in this case, it is. He is picking up condition books and the spacing is similar, or exact. But he has no control over that. He is just ready to run the horse back when the appropriate race comes up and it happens to hit exactly the same. Might even had been an extra that was carried over a day or two so total coincidence to the exact day, not a coincidence to the exact week or 10 day period.

Great questions.

I have to think they help others as well as these particular circumstances.

And of course, it goes without saying... Love Whiteley back in the day.

Thinking about changing my avatar.

Hate to because the current one is Larry Saumell winning number 8 in a row but have a couple others in mind.

What do you think?

yeah str was just curious about what may have caused the cut mouth so you answered my question.. not sure why I even asked the race spacing question as obviously to the day just a coincidence.. I would think in general when time between races is within a few days not the worst sign in the world.. things progressing forward as they should but certainly not a stand alone.. ding doing battle around the track with the two big guys on the front end with mclaughlin prevailing by a neck at 3-1..5 horse field and two of the locals were about the same odds as the big guys

remember his name from a while back.. that was his eighth win a row in your avatar.. that's gotta be a rare accomplishment geez..guessing you used him once in a while when you trained.. how about mike luzzi or kent desormeaux... they both started off in maryland if I remember correctly.. ever use either of them?

as for changing the avatar go for it.. I like images of people because horses hard to tell apart lol.. like this picture of whiteley so decided to go back to it.. the hat and cigarette hanging from his mouth..classic.. my second favorite was the young allen jerkens.. jean luc samyn had the shortest shelf life ironically considering how long he hung around for as a jockey.. "samyn on the green"as they used to say.. just don't play him on the dirt lol

[Buckandadime]

Mr. Jerken's son is a fixture here in town.. When I was going to the simulcast often I would see him come in.. He would only stay long enough to bet his Dad's horse and leave.. Of course when I saw him I had to bet the horse also!!

[JBEX]

Mr. Jerken's son is a fixture here in town.. When I was going to the simulcast often I would see him come in.. He would only stay long enough to bet his Dad's horse and leave.. Of course when I saw him I had to bet the horse also!!

steven, james or was there another jerkens boy?

[Buckandadime]

steven, james or was there another jerkens boy?

He is known here as Big Al, so I am assuming its a Jr? I honestly don't know.. He does the sports for our NBC affiliate in Tulsa.. Been doing that for 30+ yrs now..

[JBEX]

He is known here as Big Al, so I am assuming its a Jr? I honestly don't know.. He does the sports for our NBC affiliate in Tulsa.. Been doing that for 30+ yrs now..

found this..his father has passed since this article was written


http://www.kjrh.com/about-us/staff/big-al-jerkens

[JBEX]

hey str.. I know I'm way over my allotment but would like your opinion on the 3rd at parx today..trying to learn subtle things involving trip handicapping.. If the 4 sweet corinna and the 6 ignite had flipped posts that race how much better would the former have fared... whenever you can if you wouldn't mind watching it

[Buckandadime]

hey str.. I know I'm way over my allotment but would like your opinion on the 3rd at parx today..trying to learn subtle things involving trip handicapping.. If the 4 sweet corinna and the 6 ignite had flipped posts that race how much better would the former have fared... whenever you can if you wouldn't mind watching it

That was actually my only win of the day (#2).. I'm now trying to find what I missed in the other 3.. All run outs..

[str]

yeah str was just curious about what may have caused the cut mouth so you answered my question.. not sure why I even asked the race spacing question as obviously to the day just a coincidence.. I would think in general when time between races is within a few days not the worst sign in the world.. things progressing forward as they should but certainly not a stand alone.. ding doing battle around the track with the two big guys on the front end with mclaughlin prevailing by a neck at 3-1..5 horse field and two of the locals were about the same odds as the big guys

remember his name from a while back.. that was his eighth win a row in your avatar.. that's gotta be a rare accomplishment geez..guessing you used him once in a while when you trained.. how about mike luzzi or kent desormeaux... they both started off in maryland if I remember correctly.. ever use either of them?

as for changing the avatar go for it.. I like images of people because horses hard to tell apart lol.. like this picture of whiteley so decided to go back to it.. the hat and cigarette hanging from his mouth..classic.. my second favorite was the young allen jerkens.. jean luc samyn had the shortest shelf life ironically considering how long he hung around for as a jockey.. "samyn on the green"as they used to say.. just don't play him on the dirt lol

I used Larry Saumell on a Lot of my horses. What a rider he was !

That was the horses win number eight in a row at Pimlico that is in the avatar. Larry rode him in 7 of those . He had days for the other one so Jimmy Edwards subbed for him once.

I rode Mike Luzzi somewhat . Probably won 5-10 races with Mike. And of course I rode Kent when I could get him. Probably 20-30 wins with Kent. Mike was a really good rider and Kent is a HOFer. Both great guys as well.

I will work on the avatar.

[str]

hey str.. I know I'm way over my allotment but would like your opinion on the 3rd at parx today..trying to learn subtle things involving trip handicapping.. If the 4 sweet corinna and the 6 ignite had flipped posts that race how much better would the former have fared... whenever you can if you wouldn't mind watching it

It is always an educated guess at best when speculating on stuff like this but I would venture to guess that they would have traded spots and the 4 would have beaten the 6 , so maybe a length or two difference. That is assuming the 6 would run ok with a tough trip. I DO assume the 4 would have run fine with an easier trip. Because the trips are so different, the loss of ground in my mind is negated by the easier trip. If prior trips show that the 4 really appreciates a cleaner trip, that would make the 4 a horse to watch for if that better trip can be worked out next time.

Hope that makes sense.

[JBEX]

It is always an educated guess at best when speculating on stuff like this but I would venture to guess that they would have traded spots and the 4 would have beaten the 6 , so maybe a length or two difference. That is assuming the 6 would run ok with a tough trip. I DO assume the 4 would have run fine with an easier trip. Because the trips are so different, the loss of ground in my mind is negated by the easier trip. If prior trips show that the 4 really appreciates a cleaner trip, that would make the 4 a horse to watch for if that better trip can be worked out next time.

Hope that makes sense.

my thought was the 4 was battling on the inside of the 6 for a good part of the race which as you've said is a lot tougher thing to do..felt he held pretty well if I remember correctly..even before you mentioned the clean right eye always seemed to me that having a horse just to your outside would take its toll on the inside horse..it shows some resilience and fitness to stay involved under those conditions and might be worth noting for a future play..I'm sure there are exceptions like a golden rail but I'm talking more in general terms..between horses also along the same lines..I'm pretty sure you'd agree but that's more your expertise than mine..sure the latter has been covered somewhere along the way in your thread. .the former obviously has been talked about

[str]

my thought was the 4 was battling on the inside of the 6 for a good part of the race which as you've said is a lot tougher thing to do..felt he held pretty well if I remember correctly..even before you mentioned the clean right eye always seemed to me that having a horse just to your outside would take its toll on the inside horse..it shows some resilience and fitness to stay involved under those conditions and might be worth noting for a future play..I'm sure there are exceptions like a golden rail but I'm talking more in general terms..between horses also along the same lines..I'm pretty sure you'd agree but that's more your expertise than mine..sure the latter has been covered somewhere along the way in your thread. .the former obviously has been talked about

Horse for horse I was much more impressed with the 4 who finished 3rd than I was the 6 who finished 2nd.
The 4 rated, fired, switched leads right on que and never stopped trying.
The 6 was one path wider but had everything its own way but still had to be asked aggressively leaving the gate , could not draw even , and switched leads late.
I would say overall the 4 is better but that's just an opinion

[JBEX]

Horse for horse I was much more impressed with the 4 who finished 3rd than I was the 6 who finished 2nd.
The 4 rated, fired, switched leads right on que and never stopped trying.
The 6 was one path wider but had everything its own way but still had to be asked aggressively leaving the gate , could not draw even , and switched leads late.
I would say overall the 4 is better but that's just an opinion

ok str that's what I was looking for, for or against me ..thanks for watching the race and the feedback

[JBEX]

hey str..going to ask you something that at the end of the day the conclusions will be speculation..that being said I'd like your opinion if my thinking could be right or at least make sense given the things that are known..

todd pletcher had a first time starter ..4yo gelding that was a 550k purchase at auction as a yearling ..todd owned the horse in partnership with his dad jake pletcher ..jake a lifelong career in the racing as a trainer and many ventures off the the track ..he currently is the off track trainer for a major racing stable if I read it right on the website..helps break young horses I think. .

I know todd and probably his father do well but somehow don't think they'd spend that much on a yearling..you think
the fact that he debuted late and is a gelding could possibly suggest this is a horse they bought later on for a much smaller amount from one of his real well to do clients ?? Have to think you're not looking to geld a horse you spend that much on before his first start..If that is a possible scenario would have to think he and his father thought a lot of the horse to buy him..He ran a big race vs msw at a mile at GP today..got creamed at the break and finished a solid second in spite of that..more interested if my thinking makes sense rather than if it actually is the case or not


here's a link to the place his father works for and who todd trains the horses on track for

http://starlightracing.com/staff.aspx

[str]

hey str..going to ask you something that at the end of the day the conclusions will be speculation..that being said I'd like your opinion if my thinking could be right or at least make sense given the things that are known..

todd pletcher had a first time starter ..4yo gelding that was a 550k purchase at auction as a yearling ..todd owned the horse in partnership with his dad jake pletcher ..jake a lifelong career in the racing as a trainer and many ventures off the the track ..he currently is the off track trainer for a major racing stable if I read it right on the website..helps break young horses I think. .

I know todd and probably his father do well but somehow don't think they'd spend that much on a yearling..you think
the fact that he debuted late and is a gelding could possibly suggest this is a horse they bought later on for a much smaller amount from one of his real well to do clients ?? Have to think you're not looking to geld a horse you spend that much on before his first start..If that is a possible scenario would have to think he and his father thought a lot of the horse to buy him..He ran a big race vs msw at a mile at GP today..got creamed at the break and finished a solid second in spite of that..more interested if my thinking makes sense rather than if it actually is the case or not


here's a link to the place his father works for and who todd trains the horses on track for

http://starlightracing.com/staff.aspx

Your assumption is very solid. The scenario you presented happens often enough to certainly have a chance.
The gelding part suggests that the colt was a type that carries a lot of weight and an injury like a bowed tendon or something that requires a lot of down time and no training led to the gelding that would help keep excess weight off. That weight would make getting to the races after a long time off very difficult.
The very wealthy owners in cases like that will depreciate the horse over 3 years quite a bit so selling for pennies on the dollar is not a total loss .

I probably would have guessed the same thing you have presented.
Wonder if the horse wore fronts first time out. That might reaffirm a tendon or suspensory injury from way back. Without seeing the horse, that is as far as I could speculate.

Well done JBEX.

let me know how he does going forward if you remember.

[JBEX]

Your assumption is very solid. The scenario you presented happens often enough to certainly have a chance.
The gelding part suggests that the colt was a type that carries a lot of weight and an injury like a bowed tendon or something that requires a lot of down time and no training led to the gelding that would help keep excess weight off. That weight would make getting to the races after a long time off very difficult.
The very wealthy owners in cases like that will depreciate the horse over 3 years quite a bit so selling for pennies on the dollar is not a total loss .

I probably would have guessed the same thing you have presented.
Wonder if the horse wore fronts first time out. That might reaffirm a tendon or suspensory injury from way back. Without seeing the horse, that is as far as I could speculate.

Well done JBEX.

let me know how he does going forward if you remember.

ahh feel good knowing I might be right with that guess !! interesting the the reason they may have gelded him...guess they stay more focused which keeps them more active ? he ran a big race yesterday
as you'll see in link below ..#5 the big fundamental

[str]

ahh feel good knowing I might be right with that guess !! interesting the the reason they may have gelded him...guess they stay more focused which keeps them more active ? he ran a big race yesterday
as you'll see in link below ..#5 the big fundamental

Gelding them will slow down the build of layers of muscle mass that a colt or horse would otherwise get. With a name like The Big anything, it is safe to say he was a very large horse and needed help controlling his size and weight. Having problems along the way with the wheels just made the decision easy. Geld him and try and keep some of the weight off of him.

[JBEX]

Gelding them will slow down the build of layers of muscle mass that a colt or horse would otherwise get. With a name like The Big anything, it is safe to say he was a very large horse and needed help controlling his size and weight. Having problems along the way with the wheels just made the decision easy. Geld him and try and keep some of the weight off of him.

so another reason to geld a horse..good to know..what did you think of the race ?? pretty impressive to do that at a flat mile first time out ..also for him to run like that does
that mean he's over his leg problems or is that something they can only know after a post race inspection?

[str]

so another reason to geld a horse..good to know..what did you think of the race ?? pretty impressive to do that at a flat mile first time out ..also for him to run like that does
that mean he's over his leg problems or is that something they can only know after a post race inspection?

I thought he ran well. He was a little shaky for the 1st 1/8th or( totally acceptable 1st time out) so but found a perfect position and had every chance to win. Not sure if he got a little tired or not, probably should give him the benefit of the doubt 1st time out at a mile but... he had no response or answer for the winner.

He should run very well next out.

He looks real sound as of that race and I would assume whatever he had wrong if just fine for now. You never know about injuries though. They can never be a problem again, or they can creep back into the picture as he races.
The good news is it is much easier on the horse to train between races like he will start doing now, than it is getting fit and ready to run for the 1st time.
It's a night and day difference. That's a good thing for him.

[JBEX]

I thought he ran well. He was a little shaky for the 1st 1/8th or( totally acceptable 1st time out) so but found a perfect position and had every chance to win. Not sure if he got a little tired or not, probably should give him the benefit of the doubt 1st time out at a mile but... he had no response or answer for the winner.

He should run very well next out.

He looks real sound as of that race and I would assume whatever he had wrong if just fine for now. You never know about injuries though. They can never be a problem again, or they can creep back into the picture as he races.
The good news is it is much easier on the horse to train between races like he will start doing now, than it is getting fit and ready to run for the 1st time.
It's a night and day difference. That's a good thing for him.

the thing that struck me was how he got crushed or at least severely compromised out of the gate and was able to rush up into contention (quarter to 3/8 in? )..thought he dug in pretty well at the end to as he was passed considering the start of the race and the tough distance..
you think I'm going overboard with that as far as giving him extra credit for that performance?

[str]

the thing that struck me was how he got crushed or at least severely compromised out of the gate and was able to rush up into contention (quarter to 3/8 in? )..thought he dug in pretty well at the end to as he was passed considering the start of the race and the tough distance..
you think I'm going overboard with that as far as giving him extra credit for that performance?

Usually , no. But he seemed to not be knocked off his feet or lose balance or even any momentum. Just some lengths at the start.
Pretty amazing as typically what he seemed to have happen would have led to more difficulty. Maybe it was his size that allowed for him to be run into and not seem to faze him. Or his athleticism. I don't know. I did only watch it once, but do remember saying to myself, damn, all that and he looks like he just broke from an outside post and he's fine.
Trouble can be difficult to gauge. What he dealt with did not seem to bother him, his stride, or his balance at all. So I look at it like , it might have looked worse than it was. That can go both ways. But in this case, he didn't really seem to be bothered by it at all and as a result he gained a perfect, the perfect position. That is, a duel, then him, and no pressure at any time from his outside.

I think his next race will tell a lot.

The winners next race will tell plenty as well.

[JBEX]

Usually , no. But he seemed to not be knocked off his feet or lose balance or even any momentum. Just some lengths at the start.
Pretty amazing as typically what he seemed to have happen would have led to more difficulty. Maybe it was his size that allowed for him to be run into and not seem to faze him. Or his athleticism. I don't know. I did only watch it once, but do remember saying to myself, damn, all that and he looks like he just broke from an outside post and he's fine.
Trouble can be difficult to gauge. What he dealt with did not seem to bother him, his stride, or his balance at all. So I look at it like , it might have looked worse than it was. That can go both ways. But in this case, he didn't really seem to be bothered by it at all and as a result he gained a perfect, the perfect position. That is, a duel, then him, and no pressure at any time from his outside.

I think his next race will tell a lot.

The winners next race will tell plenty as well.

OK str...seems at least a positive that he was able to get into position after that start..I'll stable him and the horse that won and let you know when they go next..thanks for the feedback!

[JBEX]

OK str...seems at least a positive that he was able to get into position after that start..I'll stable him and the horse that won and let you know when they go next..thanks for the feedback!

who knows.. maybe we have the next john henry on our hands lol ..was going to say cigar also but he wasn't a gelding I believe