1. #1
    will2survive
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    Why is it that Alex Rodriguez is considered not as good a player as Derek Jeter?

    I'll tell you why Jeter is better.More championships,more clutch,will do anything to win( dive into the stands,make heads up fielding plays--example: The toss across the infield to the catcher(one of the greatest plays of all time),conducts himself in a confident manner as a leader,cares more about winning more than "Derek Jeter",didn't take steroids.Rodriguez can amass amazing stats but the Yankee captain is my choice in this matchup.Jeter is also well respected by his peers and Arod isn't.Just the fact that Rodriguez's stats kill Jeter's stats and I'm comparing them on whose the better player tells you something.

  2. #2
    chaseman
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    a-rod

  3. #3
    illfuuptn
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    Okay well I'm about to GO THE FUK OFF lol. Just hear me out...Derek Jeter is without a doubt THE MOST OVERRATED PLAYER OF ALL TIME. I'm not saying he isn't still an okay baseball player, but he is unbelievably overrated. I can tell you why:
    1.) Let's put this "good shortstop" stuff to bed. A few years back, there was a study done to rank MLB players defensively based on numerous factors that extend beyond just fielding %. Jeter ranked dead last. He has bad range compared to normal players. His signature backhand fade-away jump throw play is also the most hilarious thing I've ever seen. You know why it's a play unique to him? Because it's a stupid way to approach that play. You get it to the destination(1st base) in less time by back handing it, pivoting, and throwing. Another way to do it is by circling it, but obviously that can't be done sometimes. If he could make that fade-away throw with the same speed and accuracy as someone who stops and throws, that play would be the better option but it's simply not possible to do that.

    2.) Hitting...omg. So he's what? Like a .310 career hitter? Not really. I beg of you to watch a few Yankees games and then enlarge your balls to the point where you have the moxie to say that Derek Jeter doesn't have a noticeably smaller strike zone than the average player. I'm not saying there aren't other players who get the calls. When David Ortiz is hot, his zone gets smaller. It's as if the umpires want to see him hit so they give him good hitter's counts. I also think Kevin Youkilis gets the benefit of the doubt when it comes to borderline pitches. That being said, I think Jeter has the most consistently-and sometimes outrageously-small strike zone. With the fans screaming at Yankee Stadium and Jeter up in a big situation, do you think he's going to get rung up for a check swing? No. I can confidently say(and any Yankee fan can't honestly deny) that unless he full-on swings in that situation, he is never going to be called on it.

    I'll continue in like 20 mins. I'm not done talking about the hitting part yet

  4. #4
    cb8720
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    Jeter is absolutely not better than A-Rod, and he never has been. They're both Hall of Famers, though, and I'm glad as a Yankee fan to be rooting for these two guys.

  5. #5
    Bob Loblaw
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    If you have a bad word to say about jeter than you're not a baseball fan. Similar to me being a bears fan, I don't have a bad word to say about favre. I hate favre (for what he's done to the bears) but I respect the shit out of him. Same thing with Jeter. With that said, give me Arod. And I hate Arod. But he will produce more and he's the more feared player. Jeter will bring a ton to the team and he deserves way more credit than he gets for it, but I want Arod over the long haul right now.

  6. #6
    illfuuptn
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    cont.

    Take a close look at Jeter's at-bats. If he doesn't bitch about a strike call, he often gives an un-approving look which causes the fans to boo and get on the umpire. We're all people pleasers innately so... yeah a lot of umps give in and he gets that next "borderline" call. I'm sure we're all familiar with K-zone or whatever different networks call their identical strike zone box. Yeah, I think that most umpires call strikes about 2 inches outside of the zone on both outside and inside pitches. But to be even less controversial, I'll just use the zone to make my point. If you track all the at-bats in Derek Jeter's history and look at the pitches that are in that zone and get called a "ball" I'm positive it will be more than any player in all of MLB. Then you could reconfigure those at-bats to figure a true batting average for DJ. For instance, a 2-2 strike called a ball is obviously an out, so any hits he gets after getting to continue in such an at-bat shouldn't count towards his true batting average. A 2-1 pitch in the zone called a ball should actually make the count 2-2. Look at Jeter's average in 2-2 counts vs. 3-1 counts. There will be a bit of a difference The man is constantly in favorable counts. He works walks and gets hits after technically striking out. How much does all of this sway his true batting average? I'm really not sure and could only be sure after testing all of this(which I don't ever plan on doing because nobody will listen nor care), but it's probably anywhere from 20 to 60 points.

  7. #7
    skrtelfan
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    I don't know who considers Rodriguez not as good as Jeter, but anyone who thinks that is an idiot. I also think John Stockton was a better player than Michael Jordan because I never really cared for Hanes.

  8. #8
    illfuuptn
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    cont.

    To finish, I'll say DJ is still a pretty good player. 2nd
    base would probably suit him better. He's an okay hitter but not great or even above average. Favorable umpiring and the benefit of being on a good offensive team certainly help his batting average. The problem with my argument is that nobody will ever concede that DJ is massively overrated. I could literally write a book which documents all of the strike zone info I talked about and do all the statistical work and prove that he is a true .270 hitter and people will shoot it down. People will literally counter-argue with "I know he's better than that. You're wrong." Stubborn Yankee fans and old school baseball analysts will forever praise Jeter no matter what.

    Is he clutch? Yeah, I must admit he's pretty clutch. He's no more clutch than many other players in the league but he's definitely not a choker. He did have that unbelievable flip play against the A's that one year because he's alert and looks to find an advantage and he wants to play a role always. Does he have a good playoffs BA? Yes he does. Is it inflated per my analysis? Yes, but it's still good. Quite frankly though, with the game on the line I'm more afraid of A-Rod.

    Does DJ belong in the hall of fame? No. Well, maybe he does just because of how he has always played for a winning team, befriended yet intimidated umpires, and kept a clean image so that nobody would dare speak negatively of him. Maybe he should get in for all that. There's some merit in constructing such an exquisite facade and placing it so well in front of an average baseball career. I think he deserves it all. Jeter for HOF and Me for a Pulitzer!

  9. #9
    Holtgetsback
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    Until A-Rod has some more outstanding post season play it isn't close...

    Jeter is the most clutch hitter and fielder in the game today and it isn't close....this makes him better.

  10. #10
    Nard Dog
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holtgetsback View Post
    Until A-Rod has some more outstanding post season play it isn't close...

    Last playoffs, he was a one-man team pretty much.
    Jeter is good but overhyped.

  11. #11
    Holtgetsback
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nard Dog View Post
    Last playoffs, he was a one-man team pretty much.
    Jeter is good but overhyped.
    Jeter has been making clutch plays in the playoffs since 1996..............

    I don't think one GREAT postseason makes all of that disappear

  12. #12
    gryfyn1
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    Ill assume this is just a joke but,

    Quote Originally Posted by will2survive View Post
    More championships
    Championships is the most moronic argument you can make in a team sport - unless your going to argue that Bernie Williams with his ring was a better player than Ted Williams and Barry Bonds


    ,more clutch, will do anything to win( dive into the stands,make heads up fielding plays--example: The toss across the infield to the catcher(one of the greatest plays of all time),conducts himself in a confident manner as a leader,
    Im not entirely sure what you consider "clutch", but again, baseball is governed by those pesky stats, which don't support that argument, such as Jeters 287/350/430 slash line in 85 ALCS & WS games compared to Arods 326/441/648 in 26 games.

    or accored in B-Rs "leverage" meters Jeter is 323/403/438 ( number which mirrior his normal stats @ 100 tOps) against Arod 305/393/585, which is slightly better than his normal stats (103 tOPS)

    And yes Jeter is a very smart player - Just like, say David Eckstien, who is not better than ARod either

    cares more about winning more than "Derek Jeter",didn't take steroids
    One could argue that at best that Arod's willingness to bend the rules to win shows just how much he wants to win

    Jeter is also well respected by his peers and Arod isn't
    Ted Williams, Ty Cobb and Barry Bonds were all hated by their peers and they are 3 od the best hitter of all time hands down - being liked or respected has nothing to do with how good a player is - but does have a tendency people make outrageous claims overstating there value/abilities.

    Just the fact that Rodriguez's stats kill Jeter's stats and I'm comparing them on whose the better player tells you something.
    Seems to show you have a silly man crush on Jeter and refuse to admit the facts -

  13. #13
    Terrapin Station
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holtgetsback View Post
    Until A-Rod has some more outstanding post season play it isn't close...

    Jeter is the most clutch hitter and fielder in the game today and it isn't close....this makes him better.
    I don't necessarily disagree, but I don't think I've ever heard someone described as a "clutch fielder."

    Regardless, I'd rather have Arod on my team than Jeter.

  14. #14
    lyon804
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    If I had to pick I would pick Jeter..just a class guy with all the intangibles that Arod doesn't have. Besides the guy lives for the big moment.

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